- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Winter Olympics
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: Books on Communism
Posted on 10/21/21 at 7:23 am to BatonRougeBuckeye
Posted on 10/21/21 at 7:23 am to BatonRougeBuckeye
Check out The Black Book of Communism by Jean-Louis Panné, Andrzej Paczkowski, Karel Bartosek, Jean-Louis Margolin, Nicolas Werth, Stéphane Courtois.
0
Posted on 10/21/21 at 8:23 am to BatonRougeBuckeye
Savage Continent
Bloodlands
About Eastern Europe post WW2 under the Soviet Union. Absolutely brutal.
If you listen to podcasts, I can’t recommend MatyrMade’s “Anti-Human” episode enough (actually all of the episodes are amazing). Not for the feint of heart, really dark and heavy, but it really highlights just how truly scary big government can be.
The thing that really hits home is my parents were being born when this was happening….it wasn’t that long ago.
Bloodlands
About Eastern Europe post WW2 under the Soviet Union. Absolutely brutal.
If you listen to podcasts, I can’t recommend MatyrMade’s “Anti-Human” episode enough (actually all of the episodes are amazing). Not for the feint of heart, really dark and heavy, but it really highlights just how truly scary big government can be.
The thing that really hits home is my parents were being born when this was happening….it wasn’t that long ago.
This post was edited on 10/21/21 at 8:28 am
Posted on 10/24/21 at 12:01 pm to Babble
quote:
Democrats virtue signaling isnt communism regardless of what media outlets tell you.
You are correct.
It's how it starts.
Posted on 11/21/21 at 6:28 pm to AllDayEveryDay
quote:
It's how it starts.
Communist revolutions dont come about from “woke” neolibs. It comes about from inequity in the relationship between capital and labor. At some point inequity becomes so great in society that it drives the proletariat to violent revolution.
This post was edited on 11/21/21 at 6:30 pm
Posted on 11/23/21 at 9:14 pm to Babble
quote:
It comes about from inequity in the relationship between capital and labor. At some point inequity becomes so great in society that it drives the proletariat to violent revolution.
Do you think it's really the proletariat? I don't. It seems obviously to be the bourgeois intellectuals like Marx, Engels, Hegel, or their modern apologists who were educated, affluent, and already somewhat powerful. Mao was born relatively wealthy. Lenin was born upper middle class. The people making the most noise about equity measures and the injustices of capitalism today are generally not just college educated but typically well above average wealth and very removed from the working class.
The ideology doesn't seem to naturally arise from the oppression of the downtrodden- although the writings of Marx and his devotees attempt to create that historical record. The ideology seems to naturally spread among the already educated and affluent who use the language of equity and justice to increase their own power through whatever means are available (typically brutality including murder, terror of the ruled population, and sometimes reaching the level of genocide).
Posted on 11/23/21 at 11:43 pm to molsusports
I’ll address a couple of points you’ve made:
Leaders tend to be wealthier and have more education than non-leaders. (It’s ridiculous to make the argument that any of them were part of the bourgeoisie regardless) But the point remains, these thought-leaders could not have driven the masses to action unless there was actually a basis to be drawn to action.
Every single state where Communism has found a foothold was in economic turmoil with massive inequity prior to revolution. They were primarily autocratic states with little to no democratic procedures.
No one in first world countries take communism seriously because the standard of living is so high. Point being, if there arent pissed off poor peasants, it’s very difficult to organize a revolution in the first place.
The standard of living is far too high in the United States, and the masses are far too placated with neo-liberal and capitalist devices to be drawn to action.
This is true about the United States but check out some other countries like peru or even better check out wealthy nations that have affordable higher education.
It’s true here because lower education in the united states is highly centralized and not permissive of communist ideology. I’m not trying to argue whether its right or wrong, but when its not taught how can you expect people to subscribe to it?
Higher education in this country is incredibly expensive. The proletariat, for the most part, cannot afford to go to college which is why you see mostly wealthier people believing in these ideologies. Colleges are more left in ideology because they’re actually permitted to teach leftist ideology.
Although I would say that colleges are far less “left” than you’re lead to believe. Neoliberalism is rapant but true Socialism/Communism are not widely promoted especially at public universities.
It’s a dictatorship by the proletariat and actively calls for violence against the bourgeoisie. I don’t think there’s a single communist who would disagree with you that communism is violent.
However, it’s directed at the bourgeoisie. Sure, Mao killed millions but they were landlords who refused to turn over their capital to the state after the revolution.
That being said, communism is violent but so is capitalism. Life is violent. It appears that they’re much more violent than us because we’re the writers of our own history. I’m not gonna get into details with that cause honestly its pointless on a site like this where someone will claim to be an isolationist and in the same breath validate our involvement in the middle east. (I’m speaking generally. Not about you. I have no clue what you believe)
quote:
Do you think it's really the proletariat? I don't. It seems obviously to be the bourgeois intellectuals like Marx, Engels, Hegel, or their modern apologists who were educated, affluent, and already somewhat powerful. Mao was born relatively wealthy. Lenin was born upper middle class.
Leaders tend to be wealthier and have more education than non-leaders. (It’s ridiculous to make the argument that any of them were part of the bourgeoisie regardless) But the point remains, these thought-leaders could not have driven the masses to action unless there was actually a basis to be drawn to action.
Every single state where Communism has found a foothold was in economic turmoil with massive inequity prior to revolution. They were primarily autocratic states with little to no democratic procedures.
No one in first world countries take communism seriously because the standard of living is so high. Point being, if there arent pissed off poor peasants, it’s very difficult to organize a revolution in the first place.
The standard of living is far too high in the United States, and the masses are far too placated with neo-liberal and capitalist devices to be drawn to action.
quote:
The people making the most noise about equity measures and the injustices of capitalism today are generally not just college educated but typically well above average wealth and very removed from the working class.
This is true about the United States but check out some other countries like peru or even better check out wealthy nations that have affordable higher education.
It’s true here because lower education in the united states is highly centralized and not permissive of communist ideology. I’m not trying to argue whether its right or wrong, but when its not taught how can you expect people to subscribe to it?
Higher education in this country is incredibly expensive. The proletariat, for the most part, cannot afford to go to college which is why you see mostly wealthier people believing in these ideologies. Colleges are more left in ideology because they’re actually permitted to teach leftist ideology.
Although I would say that colleges are far less “left” than you’re lead to believe. Neoliberalism is rapant but true Socialism/Communism are not widely promoted especially at public universities.
quote:
The ideology seems to naturally spread among the already educated and affluent who use the language of equity and justice to increase their own power through whatever means are available (typically brutality including murder, terror of the ruled population, and sometimes reaching the level of genocide).
It’s a dictatorship by the proletariat and actively calls for violence against the bourgeoisie. I don’t think there’s a single communist who would disagree with you that communism is violent.
However, it’s directed at the bourgeoisie. Sure, Mao killed millions but they were landlords who refused to turn over their capital to the state after the revolution.
That being said, communism is violent but so is capitalism. Life is violent. It appears that they’re much more violent than us because we’re the writers of our own history. I’m not gonna get into details with that cause honestly its pointless on a site like this where someone will claim to be an isolationist and in the same breath validate our involvement in the middle east. (I’m speaking generally. Not about you. I have no clue what you believe)
This post was edited on 11/23/21 at 11:52 pm
Posted on 11/24/21 at 8:14 am to Babble
quote:
But the point remains, these thought-leaders could not have driven the masses to action unless there was actually a basis to be drawn to action
I strongly disagree with that. In fact many if not most revolutionary movements are long on narratives and short on truth or useful solutions. The appeal is generally propaganda based simplification of reality (the jews did it, black people did it, white people did it, the bourgeois did it) which reduces reality ti victims and oppressors. That narrative can be used to justify anything up to and including genocide
ETA I should probably just use the My Cousin Vinny "everything that guy just said is bullshite" as a response.
This post was edited on 11/24/21 at 8:19 am
Posted on 11/26/21 at 7:27 am to Babble
quote:
That being said, communism is violent but so is capitalism. Life is violent. It appears that they’re much more violent than us because we’re the writers of our own history.
Utterly false.
You want to do a body count on Communism vs Capitalist societies going back 150 years and get back to us on that statement?
Posted on 11/27/21 at 6:18 am to tide06
“Witness “ by Whitaker Chambers.
Posted on 11/28/21 at 12:11 pm to tide06
quote:
You want to do a body count on Communism vs Capitalist societies going back 150 years and get back to us on that statement?
I’m not trying to make that argument, and it’s also not an x vs y. This conversation is way too complex for an internet forum.
If a communist regime is going to be successful in the landscape of a capitalist-dominated world, its going to need to be inherently violent and overtly authoritarian. It also is incredibly difficult to pull off for a country with little to no natural resources, see North Korea.
China is probably the best poised to actually create a successful communist state due to its size and resources. It essentially went from a third world country full of peasants to the second or most powerful country in the world within a span of 60 years all the while dramatically increasing the standard of living for its population.
Also I just want to say I’m trying to hold a semi-nuanced view on this. I’m not saying, “yes! Communism better than Capitalism!” I’m saying communism is interesting and much less black/white than you’re led to believe.
This post was edited on 11/28/21 at 12:23 pm
Posted on 11/28/21 at 2:02 pm to Babble
quote:
anti-semitism.
Friend I said nothing antisemitic. I didn't say anything remotely hostile about anyone. I don't know what your gripe is with Hitler. I posted a Jewish guy who killed more Europeans than Hitler killed Jews just to try to dissuade your Europhobia. NSDAP Germany had the most multicultural military ever, including over 100k Jews in the NSDAP military. I was just pointing out that communism seemed to have destroyed several European country's aristocracy/monarchy and replaced them with Jewish leadership. I think it is a very important piece of the communist revolutions to have noted.
If you have any problems with what I said, I will back them up with sources if you want, just let me know. I'd gladly post the stories and imagery of what happened in communist revolutions and exactly who did what if you'd like.
Also openly praising Hitler while communists killed far more people? The cognitive dissonance is insane.
This post was edited on 11/28/21 at 2:21 pm
Posted on 11/28/21 at 2:57 pm to BatonRougeBuckeye
The closest I can come is:
"previously democratic countries" doesn't apply, but it covers the collapse of the political system in Russia pretty well.
"previously democratic countries" doesn't apply, but it covers the collapse of the political system in Russia pretty well.
Posted on 11/28/21 at 7:50 pm to zatetic
quote:
I don't know what your gripe is with Hitler.
Jesus fricking christ. This site is basically 4chan.
This post was edited on 11/28/21 at 7:52 pm
Posted on 11/28/21 at 7:53 pm to Babble
Why do you think Hitler is so bad when his philosophy killed like 6 million while communism killed like 100 million? How can you talk favorably about communism when it is empirically worse?
Communism even called for genocide of many different types of people in the European theater, like the Scottish Highlanders, Bretons, Basques, South Slavs, Slovenes, Croats, Serbs and Czech.
Communism even called for genocide of many different types of people in the European theater, like the Scottish Highlanders, Bretons, Basques, South Slavs, Slovenes, Croats, Serbs and Czech.
This post was edited on 11/28/21 at 7:58 pm
Page 2 of 2
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News