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Message
Most effective way to play Zion and BI together
Posted on 4/3/23 at 8:44 am
Posted on 4/3/23 at 8:44 am
One of the biggest disappointments of this season is we still don't know the best way to play these two together.
It's become clear that we win when the offense runs through them and not point CJ.
The question is how do we not look disjointed when they both play best with the ball in their hands?
I don't watch the Celtics but I'm a little concerned we are going to have to go through a phase like they did with Taytum and Brown taking turns until they figured it out.
My first inclination is that we stick with BI being the lead play initiator and then switch to Z when BI gets a rest. Keep constant pressure on the D.
That means that CJ is ALWAYS in a catch and shoot role and should never have the ball dribbling the air out of it, especially at the end of the game/quarter.
I am especially interested in running PNR with either the ball handler.
If Zion has the ball and BI sets the pick, Z has a head of steam to take it all the way or kick out to Trey, CJ, Herb, who could then swing back to BI. Even if the D goes under the screen and sags of Zion, they're going to have to send multiple defenders or build a wall which leaves someone wide open.
If BI has the ball, endless opps for easy midranges for BI or to hit a cutting Z. And maybe even give Zion some wide open easy 3s.
Thoughts?
It's become clear that we win when the offense runs through them and not point CJ.
The question is how do we not look disjointed when they both play best with the ball in their hands?
I don't watch the Celtics but I'm a little concerned we are going to have to go through a phase like they did with Taytum and Brown taking turns until they figured it out.
My first inclination is that we stick with BI being the lead play initiator and then switch to Z when BI gets a rest. Keep constant pressure on the D.
That means that CJ is ALWAYS in a catch and shoot role and should never have the ball dribbling the air out of it, especially at the end of the game/quarter.
I am especially interested in running PNR with either the ball handler.
If Zion has the ball and BI sets the pick, Z has a head of steam to take it all the way or kick out to Trey, CJ, Herb, who could then swing back to BI. Even if the D goes under the screen and sags of Zion, they're going to have to send multiple defenders or build a wall which leaves someone wide open.
If BI has the ball, endless opps for easy midranges for BI or to hit a cutting Z. And maybe even give Zion some wide open easy 3s.
Thoughts?
9
Posted on 4/3/23 at 8:48 am to ghost2most
Zion needs to be a role guy and play off everyone else.
Nothing needs to go through him.
Pretty simple.
He's young, he's athletic, hit the boards...run the floor...stack dunks/layups/put backs... and be a presence, that is all this team needs him to be. Nothing else.
Nothing needs to go through him.
Pretty simple.
He's young, he's athletic, hit the boards...run the floor...stack dunks/layups/put backs... and be a presence, that is all this team needs him to be. Nothing else.
Posted on 4/3/23 at 8:52 am to longhorn22
Might want to start seeing Zion actually on the court in a game and playing.
Posted on 4/3/23 at 8:54 am to longhorn22
quote:
Nothing needs to go through him.
yeah, no.
We were one of the best teams in the league playing through him.
He can't do it all game every game, but he's way more than a role player.
At the end of the game, I still think I want him with the ball. That bull in a china shop down the lane is either getting a layup, to the FT line or hitting a wide open shooter.
Posted on 4/3/23 at 8:56 am to ghost2most
quote:
yeah, no.
FYI - a world where Zion hustles...
He will still have 20+pts / 10+rebs / 1-3 Blks
I rather him in that role then anything else given the pieces that surround him.
Posted on 4/3/23 at 8:59 am to longhorn22
quote:
Zion needs to be a role guy and play off everyone else.
Sounds like something a big Laker fan would want.
Posted on 4/3/23 at 9:06 am to longhorn22
quote:
Zion needs to be a role guy and play off everyone else.
Nothing needs to go through him.
Pretty simple.
He's young, he's athletic, hit the boards...run the floor...stack dunks/layups/put backs... and be a presence, that is all this team needs him to be. Nothing else.
This is all totally wrong. We were the #1 seed and a really good offense playing through Zion.
When we have attempted what you are suggesting in the past we were shite.
Perhaps a Lakers fan isn't the best source for what we should do.
Posted on 4/3/23 at 9:10 am to longhorn22
quote:
Zion needs to be a role guy and play off everyone else.
This is one of the most ignorant things I have seen posted on this board. I'm sure every other team in the NBA would like that too. The Pelicans are 12-14 in games BI has played since returning from the toe. I am as happy as anyone about the last 8 games. But let's not forget that we have played bottom dwellers and the Clippers without PG and Nuggets without Jokic. The best version of this team is Zion as the lead guy. I think everyone knows this. Now, I do agree with the OP that Willie has to figure out how to utilize and maximize both quickly. But make no mistake, the ceiling of this team is with Zion at his best.
Posted on 4/3/23 at 9:19 am to ThePistol
I was hoping this thread would talk actual tactics and not turn into another BI vs Zion debate or Zion is fat/injured.
The only way this team is winning anything is if they are both at their best.
What is the best way to play them off each other?
The only way this team is winning anything is if they are both at their best.
What is the best way to play them off each other?
Posted on 4/3/23 at 9:19 am to ghost2most
It really shouldn't be that complicated, but you have to get star players to buy in to setting screens when they aren't initiating. In theory running a 2 man game with either setting screens for the other and having CJ and TM3 on the wings should be unstoppable. Zion getting BI to screen for him with either gives us a wide open 3 every time or someone has to try to 1v1 keep Zion from getting to the rim. With Zion screening for BI either BI gets an easy path right to his spot, Zion gets a clean roll to the rim, or we get an open 3. especially if we do double screens for BI and get JV, Herb or Nance into the action. This to me is our closing 5 minute playoff offense and I guarantee you any team in the league does not want to have to guard it. With Point Zion from December and Point BI from march this is a top 5 offense at a minimum.
Posted on 4/3/23 at 9:22 am to ThePistol
I am very curious to see how Willie plays this. To start the year he clearly trusted BI and didn't know what to do with Zion so he stuck him in the post which is how you minimize him. Willie saw the same thing we saw, maximizing Zion means getting Zion on the move. Point Zion isn't about Zion having the ball in his hands, it's about getting him the ball in open space where he has options.
We are in a bit of a similar situation now where BI playing very well as PG has lead to good results. Zion is likely going to be too minutes and stamina restricted to play Point Zion, so Willie may not want to immediately return to it. And that's fine, just don't do what you did to start the year and expect him to score with back to the basket post ups every time. He can do it, but expecting him to plow through 2-3 defenders without a head of steam sounds like the surest way to get him re-injured.
We are in a bit of a similar situation now where BI playing very well as PG has lead to good results. Zion is likely going to be too minutes and stamina restricted to play Point Zion, so Willie may not want to immediately return to it. And that's fine, just don't do what you did to start the year and expect him to score with back to the basket post ups every time. He can do it, but expecting him to plow through 2-3 defenders without a head of steam sounds like the surest way to get him re-injured.
Posted on 4/3/23 at 9:24 am to longhorn22
quote:
Zion needs to be a role guy and play off everyone else.
Nothing needs to go through him.
How quickly some forget
Posted on 4/3/23 at 9:25 am to CP3forMVP
longhorn22, this thread is about Zion and BI, not you. That's why I marked you're posts unreadable, you're derailing the thread on the first page. You also are either trolling us, or are proving that you are not actually a Pels fan and don't watch Pels games. It's probably both.
This post was edited on 4/3/23 at 9:28 am
Posted on 4/3/23 at 9:29 am to ghost2most
There are a few things I hope Willie incorporates quickly. I think that pick and rolls between the two with both being ball handlers at different times could be lethal to defenses. When Zion is the ball handler he can either hit BI on a short roll for a mid range jumper or attack like a freight train. When BI is the ball handler he can come off for a mid range jumper or hit Z on the roll for a dunk. Trey and CJ should also provide great spacing for this action. I also think that BI has to be open to shooting more 3's once Zion is back. He has proven that he can be a good spot up shooter and he has to be willing to fill that role. There will naturally be less space in the lane with Z on the court. BI has to be willing to make defenses pay.
What I don't want to see is BI pounding the ball on the wing with Zion attempting a post up on the same side block for 8 seconds with JV on the opposite block like we sometimes saw at the beginning of the season.
In summary, I want to see a lot of pick and rolls featuring both, Z cutting off ball, and BI willing to shoot 5+ 3's a game.
What I don't want to see is BI pounding the ball on the wing with Zion attempting a post up on the same side block for 8 seconds with JV on the opposite block like we sometimes saw at the beginning of the season.
In summary, I want to see a lot of pick and rolls featuring both, Z cutting off ball, and BI willing to shoot 5+ 3's a game.
Posted on 4/3/23 at 9:30 am to TigerinATL
I think people are just reading over the stat line of....
20+/10+/1-3 blks..
Which is derailing it...
What are they trying to grasp here? 35-40/20/5-10?
I'm getting baffled at the fact that he isn't some Marvel character in a movie....
The Pels are playing great right now without him on the court...add his presence and hustle and they will likely play at their best..... try to make it all about Zion then you may find yourself losing your momentum.
20+/10+/1-3 blks..
Which is derailing it...
What are they trying to grasp here? 35-40/20/5-10?
I'm getting baffled at the fact that he isn't some Marvel character in a movie....
The Pels are playing great right now without him on the court...add his presence and hustle and they will likely play at their best..... try to make it all about Zion then you may find yourself losing your momentum.
Posted on 4/3/23 at 9:33 am to ghost2most
If Zion is healthy and plays(ha!!!!!) it’s his team and everything goes through him.
BI runs point when Zion sits.
The tricky part is the last 2 minutes of the 4th.
ETA: This is a good problem to have, and I think the Brown/Tatum comparison is relevant. Of course those guys actually stay on the court…
BI runs point when Zion sits.
The tricky part is the last 2 minutes of the 4th.
ETA: This is a good problem to have, and I think the Brown/Tatum comparison is relevant. Of course those guys actually stay on the court…
This post was edited on 4/3/23 at 9:36 am
Posted on 4/3/23 at 9:33 am to longhorn22
quote:
Zion needs to be a role guy and play off everyone else.
Nothing needs to go through him.
Well I'm glad I got the dumbest thing I'll read this week done on a Monday.
Posted on 4/3/23 at 9:39 am to whatiknowsofar
quote:
Well I'm glad I got the dumbest thing I'll read this week done on a Monday.
I say some crazy shite on game day threads tho
Posted on 4/3/23 at 9:40 am to ThePistol
I'm not worried about Zion and Ingram being able to play off of each other. They both make the right basketball play the vast majority of the time. Plus, BI is a great spot up shooter and Zion is a great roll guy and cutter off ball.
Jonas will have to make the biggest adjustment. He needs to be effective when he is not featured in the offense. He has to accept that his focus should be rebounding, rebounding, rebounding.
Jonas will have to make the biggest adjustment. He needs to be effective when he is not featured in the offense. He has to accept that his focus should be rebounding, rebounding, rebounding.
This post was edited on 4/3/23 at 9:41 am
Posted on 4/3/23 at 9:43 am to longhorn22
quote:
I think people are just reading over the stat line of....
What you seem to be doing is forgetting that Point Zion was the primary offense when they rose to the #1 seed in the West. One of my favorite Point Zion plays wasn't even really a play. It was Zion with the ball at the 3 point line with Trey to either side of him about 15 feet away. Zion had learned just how much he needed to move to suck in the defense before he could kick it to Trey for an open 3.
quote:
try to make it all about Zion then you may find yourself losing your momentum.
As I said in my other post, Point Zion isn't about making the offense heliocentric with Zion at the center. It's about getting the ball to Zion in open space. There are more ways to do that than just giving him the ball at the top of the arc.
In the SVG season they had a play where he was in the Dunker's spot on the opposite side of someone attacking from the wing. When they attacked the paint, he'd curl into the lane, the defense would shift to the ball handler who would pass it to Zion cutting down the lane with momentum and defenders out of position. So there are plenty of ways to get the ball to Zion in good position without him running point. But they need practice time they won't have to set up plays like that, so Point Zion is probably the best way to get the most out of Zion once he's played himself back into shape.
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