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Started By
Message
re: Your one request for Baton Rouge golf
Posted on 7/27/17 at 11:04 am to Mingo Was His NameO
Posted on 7/27/17 at 11:04 am to Mingo Was His NameO
quote:
What part of LSU is not part of BREC do you not understand? If LSU closed the only difference it would make is more tee times for other courses.
You make my point for me. More tee times for other courses is what Baton Rouge needs and less tee times at courses that will never amount to anything of quality.
1
Posted on 7/27/17 at 12:51 pm to TigersSEC2010
Are you sure that is a year and not per semester? If that is per semester that is a pretty large chunk of the $250k.
Undergrads only: $130k
Full enrollment: $158K
I may be way off, but I find it more unbelievable that any 18 hole golf course with a practice range could operate for only $250k a year. Everything I am finding for year round golf courses without food / drink and clubhouses is showing a floor of $425k with a operating cost ceiling closer to $800k. I wouldn't be surprised if that $250k number is just the taxpayer portion / public funding, or actual losses per year.
Undergrads only: $130k
Full enrollment: $158K
I may be way off, but I find it more unbelievable that any 18 hole golf course with a practice range could operate for only $250k a year. Everything I am finding for year round golf courses without food / drink and clubhouses is showing a floor of $425k with a operating cost ceiling closer to $800k. I wouldn't be surprised if that $250k number is just the taxpayer portion / public funding, or actual losses per year.
Posted on 7/27/17 at 12:57 pm to lsu13lsu
quote:
You make my point for me. More tee times for other courses is what Baton Rouge needs and less tee times at courses that will never amount to anything of quality.
If that's your point then ok, but your point doesn't matter. Increasing tee times is not what's going to make those courses better. Those tee times are going to marginally raise revenue and increase expenses so while the courses may make a little bit of money if LSU closed it won't be enough to make a noticeable difference.
Also LSU isnt going to close to help the BREC courses. An argument can be made to close a couple of the BREC better, but LSU isn't going to make a decision to help BREC golf.
This post was edited on 7/27/17 at 12:58 pm
Posted on 7/27/17 at 1:21 pm to Mingo Was His NameO
I think you misunderstanding. I am not sayin LSU should close for the sake of BREC. I am saying LSU (and Clark and City Park) should close for the betterment of Baton Rouge golf in general. Also, it is a waste of taxpayer (and student) money. Those courses will never be anything and we don't need them. Just look at tee time data for BREC. We don't need this many courses.
Plenty of cheap and convenient golf without them. Santa Maria is the nicest course because it has the greatest demand. Increase demand at other courses and they will improve as well. We are spread too thin in BR to have nice courses.
Plenty of cheap and convenient golf without them. Santa Maria is the nicest course because it has the greatest demand. Increase demand at other courses and they will improve as well. We are spread too thin in BR to have nice courses.
Posted on 7/27/17 at 1:30 pm to Mingo Was His NameO
quote:
Also LSU isnt going to close to help the BREC courses. An argument can be made to close a couple of the BREC better, but LSU isn't going to make a decision to help BREC golf.
Agreed, I don't believe that closing LSU's course would automatically transfer those public funds to the BREC courses. Let's assume that the numbers presented earlier are accurate at $250k/year with $130k from student fees. That $120k that is left over will just get blown / wasted somewhere in our amazingly efficient local government, it would most likely never make its way to the people at BREC's hands. Even if it did, BREC is more than just golf and the money would probably be pushed to all of their parks. Assuming it did make it to the golf courses though in full, there are 6 courses. $20k per year would probably just disappear in the grand scheme of things considering the size of their operating budgets already. You would see no noticible difference.
Side note: Like I try to explain to my wife. If you sell something because you can no longer afford it, what logic are you trying to use to buy / fund something else? That makes no sense. If LSU's golf course closed it would have to be due to financial difficulties (because there is no where they could move the course to build a better one that would be close enough to rightfully call it LSU and serve its main purpose of students and staff playing there). Therefore it would make little to no sense, when out local government is in the hole already, to just re-distribute those funds on something else that is deemed a luxury or "non-essential". That money should responsibly be spent on bettering something important or net-zero that shite and reduce the taxes in the parish (
Like that would happen, screw it let's close the course and put in some more sidewalks or better yet, pay for a study to look into whether we need more sidewalks).Posted on 7/27/17 at 1:32 pm to The Rodfather
quote:
Are you sure that is a year and not per semester? If that is per semester that is a pretty large chunk of the $250k.
Undergrads only: $130k
Full enrollment: $158K
I may be way off, but I find it more unbelievable that any 18 hole golf course with a practice range could operate for only $250k a year. Everything I am finding for year round golf courses without food / drink and clubhouses is showing a floor of $425k with a operating cost ceiling closer to $800k. I wouldn't be surprised if that $250k number is just the taxpayer portion / public funding, or actual losses per year.
Article that references $250K
Posted on 7/27/17 at 1:35 pm to The Rodfather
No one is advocating LSU give money to BREC. It is a supply and demand issue. We have too much supply of golf in BR to have multiple quality public golf courses.
Posted on 7/27/17 at 1:41 pm to lsu13lsu
quote:
Those courses will never be anything and we don't need them. Just look at tee time data for BREC. We don't need this many courses.
I have called LSU multiple times on a Wed. to get a tee time Saturday before noon and they have had no openings. That course gets plenty of play. I don't know if you went to LSU or not, but when I was there the only golf I really got to play between work and school was at that course. I probably would not have played at all in college if that course was not there (in Baton Rouge, I would have still played on vacation). So would many of the students. It was convenient and cheap to go play there. Especially in the case where you had a class or two cancelled and you could go catch a quick 9 or so holes.
I think that you will not see what you think you will see. You will have some that migrate over to the other courses. But I think you will see more stop playing in Baton Rouge, become a 1-2 times a year golfer, or just migrate away from the game. Regardless of tee bookings or course use, less golfers in the area is actually very bad and will hurt the other courses a lot more. I know quite a few people that went from playing 1-2 times a month to 1-2 times a year because of one thing or another and now they won't play at all (anywhere) because they just left the game.
ex. guy that plays 12 -15 times a year at LSU and maybe plays 2-3 times a year with some friends or work related at Santa Maria. LSU closes and he just kinda stops playing. Now you have one less golfer. He isn't buying clubs, balls, tee times nothing and he isn't playing Santa Maria 2-3 times a year anymore either. I believe you will see just as much of this as you see people just going somewhere else. Especially when most people stop playing because of how long it takes and now there are less places to go and they are more crowded making it take even longer.
Edit: TL;DR: hypothetically you could be right and it helps BR golf. Or you are wrong and it has a worse effect and hurts it more. You say good, I'm leaning bad.
This post was edited on 7/27/17 at 1:44 pm
Posted on 7/27/17 at 1:42 pm to The Johnny Lawrence
quote:
Greystone is $199 a month for under 35, fwiw.
Is that price verified? I could have sworn it was less than that. The full family membership is just slightly higher than that.
Posted on 7/27/17 at 1:48 pm to Boudreaux35
quote:I believe all their memberships include family unless it's the full time student one.
Is that price verified? I could have sworn it was less than that. The full family membership is just slightly higher than that.
Posted on 7/27/17 at 1:49 pm to lsu13lsu
quote:
Article that references $250K
So I guess I misunderstood what you were saying earlier. I thought you were saying that the Parish (taxpayers) were paying that amount of money or that that is all it cost to operate the course. But the article that you just linked says that LSU is paying between $200k and $250k a year. Which is most likely being paid by a student fee and not the state (definitely not local) funding.
Posted on 7/27/17 at 1:49 pm to ell_13
quote:
a course where there are no "gimme" shots has helped my game a ton.
I agree with that statement, except that I can't say my game has gotten any better. :|
Posted on 7/27/17 at 1:49 pm to lsu13lsu
quote:
Posted on 7/27/17 at 1:56 pm to lsu13lsu
quote:
No one is advocating LSU give money to BREC
Good because they are two totally different organizations. BREC is a city of baton roughe organization and LSU is a state university.
quote:
It is a supply and demand issue. We have too much supply of golf in BR to have multiple quality public golf courses
Closing a couple of the BREC courses may actually help the other courses, I'm not sure and neither are you. You would have to know the financials and other data to be able to tell. With that said if you are going to close any I think the ones to close would be the mid level because hey have higher budgets and city park and the like are there to be low price options. What you can't seem to understand is that tee time money is not where they make their money. Public courses get their budgets from tax dollars, the revenue from tee times is really just cake. The way the remaining courses would improve would be from the increased funding from the city, not the increased play.
So while you may be right that closing some of the BREC courses may help the others (and I'm skeptical that it would) your reason are wrong. Not even really debateable, just wrong. And your opinion on closing LSU is completely irrelevant concerning the BREC Courses.
Posted on 7/27/17 at 1:56 pm to slam627
quote:
golf is an expensive sport.
When people have multiple kids in various sports and are paying tuition, competitive soccer, football, baseball, etc. then golf is going to fall by the wayside unless there is a way to make it actually quite cheap and convenient.
I won't disagree completely that golf is an expensive sport, however the 3 sports you list as you describe them are also very expensive. You don't play "competitive" soccer and baseball by staying in town and paying a league fee to a local recreation department. You travel, and you spend likely a lot more money than I do on my golf membership for my family. I would bet that applies with even only one child participating.
I understand that you want and need to give your kids the opportunity to participate.
Posted on 7/27/17 at 1:59 pm to lsu13lsu
quote:
It is a supply and demand issue. We have too much supply of golf in BR to have multiple quality public golf courses.
I believe that we have too many municipal courses and not enough public courses.
However, I would not mind seeing one or two of the municipal courses closed, the majority of the land sold off to help the local deficits, and the remaining land turned into very nice driving ranges / practice facilities. Like actual nice facilities you normally only see at private courses (minus all the costly tech) and courses that use to be private (Santa Maria). I'm talking:
Good multi level grass driving range
Good / decent balls that are replaced timely and not when inventory is low
Large well made (semi-quality grass) practice green designated for putting only.
nice chipping / pitching greens with multiple bunkers (deep and shallow) to hit from. (I love how Santa Maria has it set where you can practice approach shots all the way to ~100 yards on the chipping green.
I would like a bunker at the driving range so you can practice fairway bunkers
Lights to stay open after hours normal work hours.
maybe even some good vending machines with snacks and drinks.
The place would basically run itself with a ball dispenser, designated lawn service that could cut every couple days and pick up the balls daily / every other day after hours. These would need a fraction of the money the course needs to run.
I somewhat agree with you, not so much that we have too many courses, but we could use the funds elsewhere like the fact we have almost no ranges.
Posted on 7/27/17 at 2:03 pm to iheartlsu
quote:
I believe all their memberships include family unless it's the full time student one.
When I joined about 5 years ago, there was an option for a single membership or family membership, along with the under 35 also. Not sure if it is still like that or not, I just know my annual fee hasn't changed.
Posted on 7/27/17 at 2:11 pm to Mingo Was His NameO
Not here to debate what you are saying because I believe we are on the same page for the most part. I just want to point out something.
Public courses are any course that is not private, that the general public can go play. Not necessarily owned by the government and operating on tax dollars. (ex. Pelican Point)
Municipal courses are owned by the local government and operate on tax dollars, while also being public. (ex. BREC courses)
Not 100% accurate, that money goes somewhere, it doesn't just become profit for the course. The projected profits are used to offset the taxpayer budget. If the course always nets and is projected to net $250k and it takes $500k to run the course, their tax payer funding will be $250k not the full $500, unless they are trying to do renovations. That is why typical municipal courses have such low greens fees, they aren't trying to turn a profit. They just don't want to lose too much money to where they have to close or have too much surplus to where their tax funding is lower the next year.
quote:
Public courses get their budgets from tax dollars, the revenue from tee times is really just cake.
Public courses are any course that is not private, that the general public can go play. Not necessarily owned by the government and operating on tax dollars. (ex. Pelican Point)
Municipal courses are owned by the local government and operate on tax dollars, while also being public. (ex. BREC courses)
quote:
What you can't seem to understand is that tee time money is not where they make their money....the revenue from tee times is really just cake.
Not 100% accurate, that money goes somewhere, it doesn't just become profit for the course. The projected profits are used to offset the taxpayer budget. If the course always nets and is projected to net $250k and it takes $500k to run the course, their tax payer funding will be $250k not the full $500, unless they are trying to do renovations. That is why typical municipal courses have such low greens fees, they aren't trying to turn a profit. They just don't want to lose too much money to where they have to close or have too much surplus to where their tax funding is lower the next year.
This post was edited on 7/27/17 at 2:13 pm
Posted on 7/27/17 at 2:20 pm to The Rodfather
quote:
they aren't trying to turn a profit. They just don't want to lose too much money to where they have to close or have too much surplus to where their tax funding is lower the next year.
That's my point. I could've done a little better job of explaining. Of course the courses are going to try to maximize revenie from tee times and it is included when budgeting, but the lion share of their funding is from tax dollars. They arent surviving on the amount of tee times they get. That's my entire point, yes, if a course or two in the BREC system closes tee time revenue may increase, but that's not the main concern of these courses. It's the tax payer funding.
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