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Message
re: Question about a heart health diet
Posted on 3/14/22 at 9:40 pm to efrad
Posted on 3/14/22 at 9:40 pm to efrad
“People find your posts so obnoxious”
Pretty simple solution to that,don’t read my posts. I was basically replying to amgslg and cajun td and them being frustrated about not knowing what to believe about diet.
There is a lot of conflicting information and it does get confusing.There are advocates for and against various diets.Unfortunately The American Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics can’t be relied on due to the amount of money they take from food corporations.In a perfect world they could eleminate a lot of confusion.They are getting some criticism from licensed dietitians about the cozy relationship with the food industry.
“ thinly veiled vegetarian/ vegan propaganda”
I do in fact believe in the healthiness of vegetarian diets.Caldwell Esselstyn,MD in his book PREVENT AND REVERSE HEART DISEASE presents pretty compelling evidence ,he had quite a bit of success with patients reversing their coronary disease following his regimen.He also got a lot of pushback and ridicule from fellow physicians at the Cleveland Clinic.
Another interesting book that makes a strong argument for vegetarianism is RETHINK FOOD-100 DRS CAN’T BE WRONG.It’s a collection of essays from Drs and testimonials from some athletes.
Why are advocates for keto diets not accused of spreading propaganda.The science for keto diets is unsettled but there are plenty of advocates for it and numerous anecdotal testimonies.
The Journal of American Society of Nephrology in August 2020 study got conflicting results.Their conclusion- There are substantial gaps in our knowledge about the effects of high protein diets on kidney health.” and recommend more studies.
The Journal of Nephrology,Dialysis and Transplantation -generally against high protein diets but recommend more studies
Cleveland Clinic Dr. Juan Calle MD also recommended more studies but until the science is settled he recommends moderate protein diets with fruit and vegetables.
Mayo Clinic position is that high protein diets probably aren’t harmful.
“eat the way you believe and let everyone else do the same”
I don’t try to force people to eat the way I do ,I was just engaging in a conversation
presenting my thoughts.I agree that the topic is confusing.
I thought title of the board was Health/Fitness Board. Not Health /Fitness/Keto Board.Apparently,I was wrong.
This all reminds me of the vax/unvaxxed and EV/ ICE threads.Anyone expressing ideas that are different are going to get slammed.
Seems to be a lot of free floating anger and people just looking to bash someone.
Just a sign of the times,I guess.
Pretty simple solution to that,don’t read my posts. I was basically replying to amgslg and cajun td and them being frustrated about not knowing what to believe about diet.
There is a lot of conflicting information and it does get confusing.There are advocates for and against various diets.Unfortunately The American Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics can’t be relied on due to the amount of money they take from food corporations.In a perfect world they could eleminate a lot of confusion.They are getting some criticism from licensed dietitians about the cozy relationship with the food industry.
“ thinly veiled vegetarian/ vegan propaganda”
I do in fact believe in the healthiness of vegetarian diets.Caldwell Esselstyn,MD in his book PREVENT AND REVERSE HEART DISEASE presents pretty compelling evidence ,he had quite a bit of success with patients reversing their coronary disease following his regimen.He also got a lot of pushback and ridicule from fellow physicians at the Cleveland Clinic.
Another interesting book that makes a strong argument for vegetarianism is RETHINK FOOD-100 DRS CAN’T BE WRONG.It’s a collection of essays from Drs and testimonials from some athletes.
Why are advocates for keto diets not accused of spreading propaganda.The science for keto diets is unsettled but there are plenty of advocates for it and numerous anecdotal testimonies.
The Journal of American Society of Nephrology in August 2020 study got conflicting results.Their conclusion- There are substantial gaps in our knowledge about the effects of high protein diets on kidney health.” and recommend more studies.
The Journal of Nephrology,Dialysis and Transplantation -generally against high protein diets but recommend more studies
Cleveland Clinic Dr. Juan Calle MD also recommended more studies but until the science is settled he recommends moderate protein diets with fruit and vegetables.
Mayo Clinic position is that high protein diets probably aren’t harmful.
“eat the way you believe and let everyone else do the same”
I don’t try to force people to eat the way I do ,I was just engaging in a conversation
presenting my thoughts.I agree that the topic is confusing.
I thought title of the board was Health/Fitness Board. Not Health /Fitness/Keto Board.Apparently,I was wrong.
This all reminds me of the vax/unvaxxed and EV/ ICE threads.Anyone expressing ideas that are different are going to get slammed.
Seems to be a lot of free floating anger and people just looking to bash someone.
Just a sign of the times,I guess.
1
Posted on 3/15/22 at 10:44 am to LSUA 75
quote:
LSUA 75
I'm not trying to be disrespectful, but your posts are very hard to follow. I think we agree on a lot of things though, including that a large percentage of nutritional studies are flawed, corrupted, or buried when they do not produce the expected result.
quote:
Caldwell Esselstyn,MD in his book PREVENT AND REVERSE HEART DISEASE
I admit I have not read this book, but I think I know of the study the book is referring to. The issue with human studies is that it is almost impossible to control other lifestyle factors (exercise, stress, genetics, etc). Yes, the people who participated in the study had positive outcomes, but what other factors could have contributed. I'm not saying this is propaganda, but I am saying it may not be as clean cut as the "whole food plant based" crowd makes it out to be. It's just a data point.
This post was edited on 3/15/22 at 10:46 am
Posted on 3/15/22 at 10:52 am to chryso
Op if you want to help some things I recommend reading the following and implementing these. It's a link to multiple post from Dante trudal on Instagram who is one of the best in fixing health in bodybuilders. His info applies for anyone.
These post cover scrutiny from controlling hemocrit, preventing clotting, removing plaque, improving cholesterol, to improving blood pressure.
Outside of diet and starting weight training, these are the top things you can do/take for health.
LINK
LINK
LINK
LINK
LINK
LINK
LINK
LINK
These post cover scrutiny from controlling hemocrit, preventing clotting, removing plaque, improving cholesterol, to improving blood pressure.
Outside of diet and starting weight training, these are the top things you can do/take for health.
LINK
LINK
LINK
LINK
LINK
LINK
LINK
LINK
Posted on 3/16/22 at 2:10 pm to lsu777
quote:Hey - I think you are the one that argues that avoiding obesity achieves like 95% of health gains people would look for (at least metabolically). Curious what you would say about this:
lsu777
Personal fat threshold
Posted on 3/16/22 at 5:57 pm to Big Scrub TX
quote:
Hey - I think you are the one that argues that avoiding obesity achieves like 95% of health gains people would look for (at least metabolically). Curious what you would say about this:
Yes because that's what the studies show. How they achieve that is up to them on how best to stay consistent. Only things that matter are protein and calories. Personally I like IF with pretty much zero carbs.
I can't get that link to work.
Posted on 3/16/22 at 9:49 pm to Big Scrub TX
frick bro that like a novel 
I'll try to read some tomorrow and Friday night.
But if they are talking bodyweight or bodyfat set points......I agree.
That does not mean you can't get above or below but for many people they subconsciously tend to eat enough calories to bring them back to that point. It's where most people plateau and where people can easily diet down to.
What happens on most(more on that in a min) is not metabolic adaptation.....outside of the usual over eating and under reporting is that mutiple extremely controlled studies found most people in a caloric deficit tend to lower NEAT over time when close to these set points causing those set points to become plateaus over and over.
Now this you will love....the only diet shown not to consistently cause this adaptation.....vlc/keto. Those on a keto diet tend to maintain NEAT and unconsciously lower energy intake reducing the risk of plateau, atleast once fully fat adapted.
Now granted very high protein diet has not been studied to my knowledge to show if it would have same effect.......I would imagine it would so long as carbs stayed below 100g as in other studies protein has been shown to have a substantial thermic effect of up to 40% of calories being burned just from digestion so even if not maintaining NEAT it is doubtful one would lower enough to overcome the dietary induced thermogenesis caused by massive amounts of protein from whole food sources.
But set points do exist and that's why I suggest people dieting down 3-4 % lower than the bodyfat they would like to maintain and then using an app like rp, carbon, avatar to reverse diet back up to ramp up metabolism slowly to raise maintenance calories much higher than previous baseline.
Also weight training and muscle in general tends to help curb the effects of set points. True sprinting does also.
I'll try to read some tomorrow and Friday night. But if they are talking bodyweight or bodyfat set points......I agree.
That does not mean you can't get above or below but for many people they subconsciously tend to eat enough calories to bring them back to that point. It's where most people plateau and where people can easily diet down to.
What happens on most(more on that in a min) is not metabolic adaptation.....outside of the usual over eating and under reporting is that mutiple extremely controlled studies found most people in a caloric deficit tend to lower NEAT over time when close to these set points causing those set points to become plateaus over and over.
Now this you will love....the only diet shown not to consistently cause this adaptation.....vlc/keto. Those on a keto diet tend to maintain NEAT and unconsciously lower energy intake reducing the risk of plateau, atleast once fully fat adapted.
Now granted very high protein diet has not been studied to my knowledge to show if it would have same effect.......I would imagine it would so long as carbs stayed below 100g as in other studies protein has been shown to have a substantial thermic effect of up to 40% of calories being burned just from digestion so even if not maintaining NEAT it is doubtful one would lower enough to overcome the dietary induced thermogenesis caused by massive amounts of protein from whole food sources.
But set points do exist and that's why I suggest people dieting down 3-4 % lower than the bodyfat they would like to maintain and then using an app like rp, carbon, avatar to reverse diet back up to ramp up metabolism slowly to raise maintenance calories much higher than previous baseline.
Also weight training and muscle in general tends to help curb the effects of set points. True sprinting does also.
Posted on 3/18/22 at 4:42 pm to lsu777
What type of weight lifting should I do for heart health? Should I be doing many reps of lower amounts of weight or fewer reps of what is closer to my maximum?
Posted on 3/18/22 at 8:30 pm to chryso
quote:
What type of weight lifting should I do for heart health? Should I be doing many reps of lower amounts of weight or fewer reps of what is closer to my maximum?
If in doubt just do 531. Just try and stay north of being a vag.
In all seriousness you want to do some if both. 531 program is what I recommend for most old guys starting with the beginner prep school. Buy the 531 forever book.
Posted on 3/20/22 at 10:19 pm to lsu777
Just finished a book on nutrition I thought was very good-METABOLICAL by Robert Lustig ,MD? He is a retired Pediatric Neuroendocrinologist,majored in nutritional biochemistry at MIT,I have generally. been against keto diet but I was partially wrong .He says it is a good diet but not for everyone,same for vegan diet.His position is that it is good for some but not all.
Chapter 9 explains how to determine for one’s self the diet most appropriate for an individuals good health.
He addresses the keto vs vegan controversy.I laughed because I could very well relate.He called it “politically charged””The opponents on both sides of the debate are polarized to say the least.”
His premise is that the highly processed food that most eat is in effect poison,not nutrition.
He is very critical of Drs,dietitians,and the FDA and the food industry.He alleges that the majority of maladies -diabetes,cardiovascular disease,cancer even mental illness such as depression are caused by metabolic dysfunction caused by processed foods.
One thing I was right about,in his opinion,is my disdain for the food lot model in beef production.He was very critical of it also,he mentioned the Argentina model as ideal,cattle are raised and fattened strictly on pasture.
Beef raised that way is more expensive and not as tasty as Americans prefer so that is a problem.
Anyway,I thought it is a very interesting book with valuable information.
Chapter 9 explains how to determine for one’s self the diet most appropriate for an individuals good health.
He addresses the keto vs vegan controversy.I laughed because I could very well relate.He called it “politically charged””The opponents on both sides of the debate are polarized to say the least.”
His premise is that the highly processed food that most eat is in effect poison,not nutrition.
He is very critical of Drs,dietitians,and the FDA and the food industry.He alleges that the majority of maladies -diabetes,cardiovascular disease,cancer even mental illness such as depression are caused by metabolic dysfunction caused by processed foods.
One thing I was right about,in his opinion,is my disdain for the food lot model in beef production.He was very critical of it also,he mentioned the Argentina model as ideal,cattle are raised and fattened strictly on pasture.
Beef raised that way is more expensive and not as tasty as Americans prefer so that is a problem.
Anyway,I thought it is a very interesting book with valuable information.
Posted on 3/21/22 at 7:30 am to LSUA 75
quote:
One thing I was right about,in his opinion,is my disdain for the food lot model in beef production.He was very critical of it also,he mentioned the Argentina model as ideal,cattle are raised and fattened strictly on pasture.
Beef raised that way is more expensive and not as tasty as Americans prefer so that is a problem.
that would be ideal but it doesnt make that big of a difference in the fat profile. makes some but not enough to justify cost imo.
Posted on 3/21/22 at 1:59 pm to LSUA 75
quote:One of the first to really ring the bell on sugar. He supports low carb and I don't think would ever advise people to be scared of meat (unless they were actually allergic to it for some reason).
Robert Lustig ,MD
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