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re: who recruited better at lsu
Posted on 8/2/09 at 8:19 am to mrgreen225
Posted on 8/2/09 at 8:19 am to mrgreen225
Talent wise about the same. Look at Miles' recruiting rankings, awesome! However, what separates Miles from Saban, is the character of the kids Miles recruites, they are outstanding, while Saban recruits anything with two legs and half a brain.
1
Posted on 8/2/09 at 9:48 am to Peachtree Tiger
quote:
Saban recruits anything with two legs and half a brain.
Like who? Shomari Clemons, Derrick Odom, Ricky Dixon, Ricky Jean-Francois, Ryan Perrilloux
Les takes his chances two, you almost have to sometimes guys don't work out. I really don't remember Saban having to many character issues at LSU. Saban might not have any class but he knows it takes class to win.
Posted on 8/2/09 at 11:47 am to 1bigcat
Saban and it's not even close!
Posted on 8/2/09 at 12:38 pm to 1bigcat
Lavalais was recruited by DiNardo, but he didn't qualify. He eventually signed under Saban because the LSU recruiter, who had been recruiting him for DiNardo before Saban came, told Saban about Lavalais. If DiNardo's staff hadn't been recruiting him before, it is unlikely Saban would have ever have known about him since he was out of school when Saban arrived.
Given that DiNardo has largely restored LSU's ability to recruit in-state before Saban arrived, most of the players Saban signed from Louisiana would have ended up at LSU with any decent coach/recruiter. Just like Miles has an easier time in recruiting because of Saban's success, Saban built on DiNardo's recruiting successes (Davey, Reed, Faulk, LeJeune, Green, etc.) before the program's existing talent was completely dissipated. Saban didn't inherit a bare cupboard, and LSU was already having some significant success in recruiting under DiNardo.
That isn't to say Saban isn't a great recruiter (and excellent coach), he clearly is, but it isn't as if he were recruiting in vacuum. Folks forget that DiNardo's first 2 years at LSU were pretty strong. His greatest mistake was the Tepper fiasco, but he actually had made a significant turnabout in recruiting (that would quickly have dissipated had he stayed because of Tepper's abysmal performance)- see the 2001 roster of DiNardo's players who were key in winning the 2001 SEC championship.
If one were to put Saban at a program like Oklahoma State instead of LSU when he left Michigan State, would we think of him as a great recruiter? Where was he in the rankings at Michigan State in terms of recruiting classes?
He had a decent W-L record at MSU. Miles similarly had a decent record at OSU (actually the best record of any coach there in at least 30 years before his arrival).
At LSU Saban shot to the top of the list of great recruiters. Maybe that had something to do with being at LSU? A decent coach, decent recruiter should have consistently strong classes at LSU. Miles gets the same boost.
Again, Saban did a great job. He is doing a great job at Bama. His recruiting classes at Bama have been a significant improvement over his predecessor. His classes at LSU were an improvement over DiNardo. But whether he is "head and shoulders" above Miles isn't yet apparent. I think it is too early to decide that yet.
Given that DiNardo has largely restored LSU's ability to recruit in-state before Saban arrived, most of the players Saban signed from Louisiana would have ended up at LSU with any decent coach/recruiter. Just like Miles has an easier time in recruiting because of Saban's success, Saban built on DiNardo's recruiting successes (Davey, Reed, Faulk, LeJeune, Green, etc.) before the program's existing talent was completely dissipated. Saban didn't inherit a bare cupboard, and LSU was already having some significant success in recruiting under DiNardo.
That isn't to say Saban isn't a great recruiter (and excellent coach), he clearly is, but it isn't as if he were recruiting in vacuum. Folks forget that DiNardo's first 2 years at LSU were pretty strong. His greatest mistake was the Tepper fiasco, but he actually had made a significant turnabout in recruiting (that would quickly have dissipated had he stayed because of Tepper's abysmal performance)- see the 2001 roster of DiNardo's players who were key in winning the 2001 SEC championship.
If one were to put Saban at a program like Oklahoma State instead of LSU when he left Michigan State, would we think of him as a great recruiter? Where was he in the rankings at Michigan State in terms of recruiting classes?
He had a decent W-L record at MSU. Miles similarly had a decent record at OSU (actually the best record of any coach there in at least 30 years before his arrival).
At LSU Saban shot to the top of the list of great recruiters. Maybe that had something to do with being at LSU? A decent coach, decent recruiter should have consistently strong classes at LSU. Miles gets the same boost.
Again, Saban did a great job. He is doing a great job at Bama. His recruiting classes at Bama have been a significant improvement over his predecessor. His classes at LSU were an improvement over DiNardo. But whether he is "head and shoulders" above Miles isn't yet apparent. I think it is too early to decide that yet.
Posted on 8/2/09 at 2:11 pm to tigerinridgeland
nice post
I think time will tell, I just don't think the torch can be passed yet.
Plus Miles kinda had it rough his first 2 recruiting seasons. He only got to sign 13 his first year. Then he had to deal with Katrina in 2005, I am guessing that back then he wasn't offering as many plays early like he is now? Do you think Katrina effected his recruiting?
I think time will tell, I just don't think the torch can be passed yet.
Plus Miles kinda had it rough his first 2 recruiting seasons. He only got to sign 13 his first year. Then he had to deal with Katrina in 2005, I am guessing that back then he wasn't offering as many plays early like he is now? Do you think Katrina effected his recruiting?
Posted on 8/2/09 at 2:55 pm to 1bigcat
quote:
Do you think Katrina effected his recruiting?
I tend to think not so much. It may have affected it because of the athletes in the New Orleans area who left the state following Katrina, but I don't think it had a negative effect on recruiting overall.
The 2006 class had 25 signees with a 3.64 average star rating on Rivals, tied for 4th best average in that year, and included two 5 star players from Louisiana. He lost few, if any, players from Louisiana that he offered. (No team in at least the top Rivals top 25 signed a Louisiana player who had an offer from LSU.)
I agree that he probably wasn't making as many early offers as he is now, but I am not sure other coaches were either, at least not at the same rate they are doing it now. I don't think Katrina had much impact on that issue.
The 2005 recruiting class had only 13 signees, but highly rated in average stars. Even Saban would have signed a fairly small class that year because of the scholarship limits.
Posted on 8/2/09 at 3:42 pm to jbirds1
quote:
Saban did a hell of a job for a program in the shitter
+1
Miles' classes may be better, but look at the platform he started from.
Posted on 8/2/09 at 6:38 pm to Tiger n Chains
quote:
Miles' classes may be better, but look at the platform he started from.
Miles did have an advantage, but Saban didn't start from as far down as most want to acknowledge. LSU's program was down, but not as bad off in recruiting as it was in coaching (specifically Tepper). DiNardo was successful in turning around instate recruiting (K. Faulk, Herb Tyler, Josh Reed, McFarland, LeJeune, J. Green, etc.) and had gotten some pretty good OOS talent (like Davey). Saban did not inherit a talentless team nor did he inherit a recruiting drought. As I have said earlier, a good coach and recruiter would have gotten most every important Louisiana player at that point, which is the key to success at LSU. DiNardo was doing pretty well with that already, but it wouldn't continue as long as Tepper was the DC.
Miles would likely have had the same kind of recruiting success as Saban had he followed DiNardo instead of Saban. Any reasonably good coach/recruiter at LSU would.
Again, that is not a put down of Saban. But the truth is, any reasonably good coach at LSU should have good success in recruiting. You don't necessarily have to be the best recruiter in the nation to be successful in recruiting at LSU. But you can't be Curly Hallman. Obviously a great recruiter will do even better, and Saban and Miles both belong in that "great recruiter" category. Who's better? The jury is still out.
This post was edited on 8/2/09 at 6:39 pm
Posted on 8/2/09 at 7:26 pm to jbirds1
quote:
Saban did a hell of a job for a program in the shitter.
Saban won with Dinardo's recruites. You don't here that mentioned to much. It is always Miles won with Sabans recruites.
Posted on 8/2/09 at 11:13 pm to Metry Tiger 82
The question is about who is the better recruiter. It's not who is the best a rebuilding a program, coaching, kissing arse, etc...
Just look at the classes that the two have hauled in, and its clear that Les is the better recruiter. However, Saban definitely turned LSU into a power...so props there.
Just look at the classes that the two have hauled in, and its clear that Les is the better recruiter. However, Saban definitely turned LSU into a power...so props there.
Posted on 8/3/09 at 6:15 pm to ThermoDynamicTiger
Are you talking star wise?
Miles best classes are still young and unproven.
Miles best classes are still young and unproven.
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