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re: "Gimmick" Offenses
Posted on 6/23/11 at 10:30 am to TxTiger82
Posted on 6/23/11 at 10:30 am to TxTiger82
quote:
And like with the triple option, you focus on stopping the base play first. That is the FB dive in the triple option, and the jet sweep in Oregon's O.
Not quite. Probably 95% of every play Oregon runs has some form of the read option in it. Whether it be the actual zone read, the zone read to the bubble screen/seam pass/speed option, or the zone read PA pass. Oregon rarely does a traditional drop back pass.
1
Posted on 6/23/11 at 10:32 am to 7thWardTiger
quote:
Posted byMessage
7thWardTiger
"Gimmick" Offenses
Its like the triple option. Hard to prepare for in a week, but give it ample time and you can stop it
The Triple option was a pretty simple offense to stop. The spread is much more fluid with more options off of the reads on the defense. The real battle is can the defense disguise it's set and keep the offense from getting good reads. This is more of a cerebral battle in a short time span than simply shutting down a triple option offense.
The question really will be, can LSU get its defense set in 10 seconds and hide the defensive call from the Oregon QB well enough that he makes a wrong call on the play.
Posted on 6/23/11 at 10:34 am to TxTiger82
The worst-used term on the Rant is probably “gimmick offense”. Guys, A-11 is a “gimmick offense”. You fools who think Malzahn and Kelly run gimmick offenses are crazy. Just because it looks exotic to you, doesn’t mean it’s anything more than an offense designed around the most basic football principles there are, run at an accelerated pace, and with lots of shits/motion/window-dressing.
Oregon’s base play is not the jet sweep, it’s the inside zone. They don’t even run the jet sweep as much as a team like Auburn. When you start overplaying the inside zone, they’re much more likely to counter you, bubble, or slant-go you.
All three of those teams were better than them IMO. Simple as that.
quote:
And like with the triple option, you focus on stopping the base play first. That is the FB dive in the triple option, and the jet sweep in Oregon's O.
Oregon’s base play is not the jet sweep, it’s the inside zone. They don’t even run the jet sweep as much as a team like Auburn. When you start overplaying the inside zone, they’re much more likely to counter you, bubble, or slant-go you.
quote:
How do you explain that Oregon has lost pretty much any time you have faced a quality opponent with time to prepare in the last two years?
Boise State, Ohio State, Auburn
All three of those teams were better than them IMO. Simple as that.
Posted on 6/23/11 at 10:34 am to GoDucks349
Auburn did it....
Posted on 6/23/11 at 10:35 am to GoDucks349
How do you think LSU's Defense compares to Auburn's Defense?
ask yourself that question.
be afraid....be very afraid
ask yourself that question.
be afraid....be very afraid
Posted on 6/23/11 at 10:36 am to prplngldtigr
Simple - Keep their offense off the field, our D doesn't get tired.
It all starts with the offense. We have the manpower to overpower their line and let Ware/Ford run all over them and kill the clock.
When their offense is on the field, it's essential to play fundamental assignment defense. Stick to your assignments and stop them. Trying anything fancy will normally leave gaps in the D for them to exploit.
It all starts with the offense. We have the manpower to overpower their line and let Ware/Ford run all over them and kill the clock.
When their offense is on the field, it's essential to play fundamental assignment defense. Stick to your assignments and stop them. Trying anything fancy will normally leave gaps in the D for them to exploit.
Posted on 6/23/11 at 10:40 am to GoDucks349
quote:
The Triple option was a pretty simple offense to stop. The spread is much more fluid with more options off of the reads on the defense. The real battle is can the defense disguise it's set and keep the offense from getting good reads. This is more of a cerebral battle in a short time span than simply shutting down a triple option offense
Meh. The spread is just the triple option in space. Buiot around speed and quickness, especially on the offensive line, as opposed to power. Both use the same concepts. You could break down film of navy and air force and find the exact same plays Oregon runs, except out of different formations.
Posted on 6/23/11 at 10:40 am to FootballNostradamus
quote:
The worst-used term on the Rant is probably “gimmick offense”.
I'm not using it as if it's a bad thing.
The triple option is a "gimmick" offense and GT is probably my favorite team to watch in college football as far as offense goes.
Posted on 6/23/11 at 10:40 am to Prominentwon
quote:
quote:
Not very well thought out.
Not necessarily. I guess it would be easier to ask if Oregon has a back up plan?
If a team has enough time to shut the offense down and succeeds, where does Oregon go from there?
At least with LSU, you know what you're going to get regardless. smashmouth, up the gut offense. With an occasional pass to open things up a little more....the entire game.
Oregon is not built for that. So if the spread is shut down, where do they go from there?
You still missed the point. They won't worry about LSU shutting down the offense, they will just work to wear LSU down and get the one or two mistakes that happen along the way and exploit those mistakes. If you run enough plays you will get some to work. Numbers add up. I'm not trying to be difficult here, I'm just saying it's different thinking than what I've seen in football previous to the fast paced spread. Auburn doesn't run the spread nearly as often as Oregon or as fast for as long.
I'll admit the officials will play a roll in this game. If they are fat and slow at getting the ball placed it will be to LSU's advantage. Speed in getting plays off is a key part of the Oregon offense. LSU's ability to slow that down will help them greatly.
This is why we had so many teams faking injuries against the Ducks last year. They needed time to get set on defense. If you've got the best athletes in the country and they aren't in position, they aren't going to stop the play.
Posted on 6/23/11 at 10:42 am to 7thWardTiger
quote:
The spread is just the triple option in space. Buiot around speed and quickness, especially on the offensive line, as opposed to power. Both use the same concepts. You could break down film of navy and air force and find the exact same plays Oregon runs, except out of different formations.
Good point. The spread is built on speed as well. With the 3TO, you can play smashmouth and run between the tackles with no space. They don't have to play fast for it to work. Except with the option, you can expect about as many big plays as you can with the spread.
Can someone find GT's 20+ yard plays from 2009 and compare them with Oregon's in 2010?
I could probably be wrong, but I'd like to see that number.
This post was edited on 6/23/11 at 10:43 am
Posted on 6/23/11 at 10:44 am to GoDucks349
quote:
Oregon won't change offensive philosophy significantly during the game
Your entire premise was just disproven in your last game. You better hope Chip Kelly learned his lesson against Auburn, because they most certainly did go away from their philosophy early on in the NCG.
You guys ran a TON of two-back sets which were not seen beforehand that season. Twitter was going crazy tearing Kelly a new one during the game because he was outsmarting himself.
So Oregon is not afraid to go away from what they know after long layoffs, and to be quite honest, they lived with the disastrous early results.
I also didn't see them leaving the interior Defensive Tackle uncovered much in their blocking schemes throughout the year, either.
Posted on 6/23/11 at 10:47 am to Prominentwon
quote:
Can someone find GT's 20+ yard plays from 2009 and compare them with Oregon's in 2010?
I cant find 09, but last year, GT led the nation in rushes over 20 yards with 45 compared to Oregon's 38
Oregon had 22 rushes over 30 yards compared to GT's 18 and 13 rushes over 40 compared to GT's 8
This post was edited on 6/23/11 at 10:49 am
Posted on 6/23/11 at 10:50 am to 7thWardTiger
quote:
I cant find 09, but last year, GT led the nation in rushes over 20 yards with 45 compared to Oregon's 38
..and that's after losing Jonathon Dwyer.
I asked for '09 so I could match up GT's best rushing offense vs. '10's Oregon's offense.
To be fair, I know Oregon passed alot more. I'm mainly talking about the spread in the running game.
Posted on 6/23/11 at 10:50 am to GFunk
quote:
Your entire premise was just disproven in your last game. You better hope Chip Kelly learned his lesson against Auburn, because they most certainly did go away from their philosophy early on in the NCG.
You guys ran a TON of two-back sets which were not seen beforehand that season. Twitter was going crazy tearing Kelly a new one during the game because he was outsmarting himself.
So Oregon is not afraid to go away from what they know after long layoffs, and to be quite honest, they lived with the disastrous early results.
I also didn't see them leaving the interior Defensive Tackle uncovered much in their blocking schemes throughout the year, either.
Yes they modified their looks, but it wasn’t the scheme that hurt them. It was their execution of it, most notably Thomas. The looks Kelly presented in the NC game were extremely creative just poorly executed. With an entire offseason to drill them, I expect them to be much more comfortable and this isn’t a great thing for LSU.
Also, they zoned off the interior defensive tackle quite a bit last year. They do it once teams start crashing their defensive end and scraping their outside linebacker over.
Posted on 6/23/11 at 10:51 am to 7thWardTiger
Point is, they're insanely similar and GT does it at a much slower pace.
Which kind of proves your point that they're similar. Just works differently between space and between tackles.
Which kind of proves your point that they're similar. Just works differently between space and between tackles.
Posted on 6/23/11 at 10:52 am to GFunk
quote:
GFunk
Yes and no to what you're saying. Oregon tried some new formations, and they also implemented the midline read with leaving the DT free to read off of, but in essence it was the same offensive principles. He threw a few new wrinkles in like all coaches do in bowl season.
This year, he will go under center and have a downhill rushing attack as well as implementing two TE sets.
Posted on 6/23/11 at 10:52 am to GoDucks349
quote:
The Triple option was a pretty simple offense to stop. The spread is much more fluid with more options off of the reads on the defense. The real battle is can the defense disguise it's set and keep the offense from getting good reads.
You're proving with every post that you don't know WTF you're talking about.
The "spread" is not an offense. It's a formation. Your team runs a midline option based offense out of multiple personnel groupings & formations from a Spread Formation.
Florida, Utah, & BG under Meyer ran a Triple Option offense, which has many of the same exact plays as Georgia Tech. The differnece is that they ran it from the "Spread" formation.
You need to either read up and study some film, or just admit that you're in over your head and not quite sure the difference between a formation & an offense system.
EDIT: Meyer and his crew at Florida were some of the most innovative minds in CFB. Meyer threw new wrinkles in constantly. The shovelpass to the tight end against LSU in 2009 was a brilliant example. They were always tweaking. For you to say that they're "pretty simple offense to stop" really and truly starts to eat away at your credibility. Even moreso than saying you run a "Spread" offense.
This post was edited on 6/23/11 at 10:57 am
Posted on 6/23/11 at 10:53 am to 7thWardTiger
I like the post that compares Oregon's offense to the triple option...because it's really the same in alot of ways.
You scheme to stop the triple option a little differently though...the main idea is for the play-side Defensive Tackle to get upfield rather than crash down which dictates the dive. Defenses usually like to plug that A Gap with a backer. The QB's read is to give to the FB if the DT goes upfield, and to keep it if he crashes down.
In The Spread Option game, an OLB or a Safety has to key on the motion man and the interior defenders have to stay home for the zone read while the DE's and OLB's are responsible for shutting down the backside option.
It's assignment football 101...you stick to your assignments, and you shut it down. plain and simple.
You scheme to stop the triple option a little differently though...the main idea is for the play-side Defensive Tackle to get upfield rather than crash down which dictates the dive. Defenses usually like to plug that A Gap with a backer. The QB's read is to give to the FB if the DT goes upfield, and to keep it if he crashes down.
In The Spread Option game, an OLB or a Safety has to key on the motion man and the interior defenders have to stay home for the zone read while the DE's and OLB's are responsible for shutting down the backside option.
It's assignment football 101...you stick to your assignments, and you shut it down. plain and simple.
Posted on 6/23/11 at 10:55 am to FootballNostradamus
quote:
Yes they modified their looks, but it wasn’t the scheme that hurt them. It was their execution of it, most notably Thomas. The looks Kelly presented in the NC game were extremely creative just poorly executed. With an entire offseason to drill them, I expect them to be much more comfortable and this isn’t a great thing for LSU.
Ask Gary Crowton about creativity. We also had lots of offseason to drill them. He made a bad mistake that could be argued really stymied his team's ability to get going early.
You ended up with 363 yards of offense through the air, and on the surface it propped up your gaudy offensive numbers, & two plays yieled almost half that yardage through the air. Bottom line is that you got absolutely squadoosh with those new plays, & had over a month to prepare.
You don't impress me, hoss. Neither does your offense.
Posted on 6/23/11 at 10:55 am to 7thWardTiger
If LSU's run game gets stuffed, what do they do? 
Oh, you try to throw the ball with JJ.
All joking aside, sometimes you aren't going to put a lot of points on the board.
Oh, you try to throw the ball with JJ.
All joking aside, sometimes you aren't going to put a lot of points on the board.
This post was edited on 6/23/11 at 10:57 am
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