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Message
re: Jefferson vs. Lee Inside the Numbers *Updated*
Posted on 10/6/10 at 5:45 pm to Roaad
Posted on 10/6/10 at 5:45 pm to Roaad
quote:
JJ is pretty adept at running the read option. That most likely accounts for it. JJ is better at running the read option than JL is at throwing the ball. When JJ hands the ball off, LB's have to still account for Jefferson. . .it freezes them sometimes. When Lee was in, they were relatively confident he was no threat to run.
At this point, though, I am willing to make that trade off. Lee needs to be the guy, and JJ should play the change of pace guy (ala Tebow to Leak or Taylor to that white guy at Va Tech years back).
I will refrain from the praise that many on here are heaping upon Lee. He is about to play an away game in a very hostile place, against a REALLY good defense. He plays like he did against UTk (not stats, actual throws/decisions), and nobody will want him behind center again.
I definitely agree with all of this.
0
Posted on 10/6/10 at 5:47 pm to OBUDan
Them stats are complete bullshite. I have a stat for you 3/10 for 30 yds 2ints. Them dont work
Posted on 10/6/10 at 5:49 pm to thanksjhester
quote:Lee is better at throwing the ball.
I have a stat for you 3/10 for 30 yds 2ints.
Way to go, Einstein.
Posted on 10/6/10 at 5:50 pm to guttata
quote:
Without Lee, LSU loses to Tenn. End of thresd.
Without Jefferson's first touchdown, LSU loses to Tenn. Thread reopened.
Posted on 10/6/10 at 5:53 pm to NorfolkVATiger
quote:
Has anyone already asked how you dealt with the plays where the drive stalled for JJ and Lee came in on 3rd and impossible and was asked to try to throw the ball to convert?
I'm pretty sure Lee came in on a 3rd and 22, a 3rd and 9, and maybe a 3rd and goal from about the 9, if I remember right.
That's three snaps Lee ate trying to bail out a drive that was pretty much dead on Jefferson's watch.
Yeah, but it's not much of a change. They weren't good situations with Lee, but the two resulted in incompletions (one also with Lee throwing the illegal forward pass).
Here's how a few drives ended:
JJ helms a 8 play, 43 yard drive to the 31. He throws short of the sticks, Peterson fumbles. Could have been a situation where we go for it, or at the very least kick a FG to take a 10-7 lead. Drive killed by Peterson.
Lee get intentional grounding on a 1st and 10 after already picking up a 1st down. 2nd and 23 we run for minimal gain, 3rd and 21 he gets 16 yard back on a pass. Drive killed by Lee there.
JJ drives 40 yards on 4 plays to the 48. Murphy fumbles a pitch on 1st and 10 for a 12 yard loss. JJ throws incomplete on 2nd (dropped by TT and would have been a 1st). Lee comes in on 3rd and 22 and gets illegal forward pass. Drive killed by Murphy.
JJ drives team from our 41 to their 14. Ridley runs for 1 on 1st down. Ford rushes for no gain on 2nd down. Lee throws incomplete on 3rd and 9. Not really JJ's fault there. Can't remember the exact play by Lee.
So JJ wasn't at fault for either of the times Lee had to come in on 3rd and longs.
JJ did kill two drives with his own picks though.
This post was edited on 10/6/10 at 5:56 pm
Posted on 10/6/10 at 5:54 pm to NorfolkVATiger
quote:
I'm pretty sure Lee came in on a 3rd and 22, a 3rd and 9, and maybe a 3rd and goal from about the 9, if I remember right.
There was no 3rd and goal from the 9. I do remember a 3rd and 22 or whatever and I think that is where he got the penalty for throwing after running over the line of scrimmage.
There was another drive where he got in after JJ and Ridley were running it well (I have no idea why they did that). And I do believe that JL passed on a 3rd and 9 in FG range.
This post was edited on 10/6/10 at 6:21 pm
Posted on 10/6/10 at 5:58 pm to Big EZ Tiger
Just looked at the play-by-play, it was 3rd and 9 from the UT 13, not third and goal, that Lee came in on.
Posted on 10/6/10 at 6:01 pm to NorfolkVATiger
Yeah, and we got there from running back to back failed runs.
Posted on 10/6/10 at 6:02 pm to OBUDan
quote:
So JJ wasn't at fault for either of the times Lee had to come in on 3rd and longs.
I didn't mean it was JJ's fault the drive stumbled, but that it was his drive and when it got sticky he got pulled for Lee because Lee's a better passer.
And while it's not JJ's fault it was a long yardage situation, it is because of JJ's limitations as a passer that Lee has to come on in those situations.
Anyway, thanks for the answer. I was just curious if anyone had already asked about that.
Posted on 10/6/10 at 6:03 pm to NorfolkVATiger
quote:
I didn't mean it was JJ's fault the drive stumbled, but that it was his drive and when it got sticky he got pulled for Lee because Lee's a better passer.
And while it's not JJ's fault it was a long yardage situation, it is because of JJ's limitations as a passer that Lee has to come on in those situations.
Anyway, thanks for the answer. I was just curious if anyone had already asked about that.
OH yeah, absolutely. Lee is 100% a better passer than JJ. And I imagine we'll see Lee in obvious passing downs from here on out (if he doesn't take the reigns as the full time starter).
Posted on 10/6/10 at 6:03 pm to OBUDan
If JJ plays the whole game = "LOSS" 4 & 1
If JL plays the whole game = "WIN" 5 & 0 baby,
The data I crunched to come to this conclusion = Common Sense & my Own Damn Eyes!!!
Be careful of the people you choose to argue with or you run the chance of looking a bit like them!!!
If JL plays the whole game = "WIN" 5 & 0 baby,
The data I crunched to come to this conclusion = Common Sense & my Own Damn Eyes!!!
Be careful of the people you choose to argue with or you run the chance of looking a bit like them!!!
Posted on 10/6/10 at 6:04 pm to Big EZ Tiger
Good Post. And I definitely agree with the guy who said that we shouldn't be excited about neithor one of these two guys.
...Russell Sheppard should give QB another shot, we could use him play making ability.
...Russell Sheppard should give QB another shot, we could use him play making ability.
Posted on 10/6/10 at 6:05 pm to DonnyBravo
quote:we are as likely to lose as with JJ playing the whole game.
If JL plays the whole game
JJ scored the first TD of the game. You are hoping that Lee would have scored, we KNOW that JJ did.
Posted on 10/6/10 at 6:06 pm to LuzianaFootball
quote:
And I definitely agree with the guy who said that we shouldn't be excited about neithor one of these two guys.
Yeah, basically two different kinds of suck right now
Posted on 10/6/10 at 6:06 pm to LuzianaFootball
quote:I got raked over the coals for saying that.
And I definitely agree with the guy who said that we shouldn't be excited about neithor one of these two guys.
Both our QB's are pretty awful. Lee seems like less of a headcase right now, though.
Posted on 10/6/10 at 6:09 pm to Roaad
quote:
I got raked over the coals for saying that.
I honestly don't get why people are so genuinely excited about Lee.
I mean, he did some good things. He played tough. And the last drive, kudos to him, even though he about botched it with his delay of game penalty.
But why anyone would just be stoked to give him the keys to the castle is beyond me. They are just excited because he passed it better than JJ I guess... but that's not saying much.
Posted on 10/6/10 at 6:11 pm to OBUDan
quote:this would be my guess.
They are just excited because he passed it better than JJ I guess
quote:Kid still throws off his back foot.
But why anyone would just be stoked to give him the keys to the castle is beyond me.
He clearly has the same bad habits as he had in 08. I hope he gets it fixed before Saturday. They'll go yard on him if he plays that way.
Posted on 10/6/10 at 6:14 pm to OBUDan
quote:
Throwing out shortest and longest for each player:
Average drive length with JJ: 5.5
Average drive length with Lee: 5.66
Why would you do that? Taking out the longest drive is ridiculous...you throw out high/lows to guard against fluke results. But a long sustained drive is the definition of 'not a fluke'.
Posted on 10/6/10 at 6:17 pm to philter
quote:It most certainly can be a fluke, sustained or otherwise, when viewed with a complete data set.
But a long sustained drive is the definition of 'not a fluke'.
For the record, removing the longest drives for both players would seem to benefit Lee. . .unless Lee had a drive of more than 83 yards.
Posted on 10/6/10 at 6:18 pm to Roaad
quote:
we are as likely to lose as with JJ playing the whole game.
Lee got us down to the goal line twice .... clutch when we needed it!
I trust my judgement that he would have scored multiple times if in the game,,, and in addition if he'd been given some playing time this year. If you didn't see something that obvious you need to quit spouting off statistics
that mean absolutely nothing! It is an exercise in futility.
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