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Message
re: Jefferson vs. Lee Inside the Numbers *Updated*
Posted on 10/6/10 at 3:57 pm to Jaketigger
Posted on 10/6/10 at 3:57 pm to Jaketigger
quote:
And you know this b/c? Has KSU even tried to run with him? Didn't he lose 15 or so pounds to get quicker?
Also, when was the last time you saw Payton, drew or tim run? You do not have to be a great runner to be a good qb. I am not saying that JL is a good qb, but that is a poor argument because you just pissed on the Saints winning the AB last year...
I have no idea what you are talking about.
You referenced Kansas State and, Walter Payton, Drew and Tim (whoever they are) and the Saints in a post about the LSU offense.
0
Posted on 10/6/10 at 3:58 pm to Powerman
Here's how it breaks down watching the Tenn. game:
-JL clearly is better at throwing screens, etc., that can really help this team move the ball. We should really try to hurt people with these types of plays that are generally safe and then try some big ones when we've got the D playing tight in the middle of the game.
-JJ is not very good at protecting the ball like he has been for his first two years at LSU. Two Int. in 10 passes is unacceptable.
-JL gave us a better chance at throwing 10-15 yards down the field. Yeah, JJ had a few drops, but it shouldn't feel like a big surprise when your QB completes a 10-yard pass.
-JJ is good with that read option play from the shotgun (not the toss option). We do have success with that and should continue to use it in situations to make the D think.
-JJ does get the plays off much better than JL when there is actually a play signaled in (he rarely gets delay penalties). For JL, you can't get a delay penalty on 4th and 9 with the game on the line and then follow it up by taking our last timeout (though the timeout was possibly on our coaches).
-JJ does not get plays off when no call is signaled in (coaches...please make note of this).
-You can't take credit away from JJ's long run because it was a rare play. Without it, that last drive wouldn't have mattered. It would be like taking out JL's long completion because it's a rarity. I know his other long pass was completely awful, but it doesn't take away the fact that he came back and completed a great one.
-For all of JJ's shortcomings, he does always seem to put together enough drives for LSU to be in the game and win it. Remember, our only 10 points that we had with 00:00 remaining on the clock and one untimed play came from his run and a running drive that he lead. So his turnovers sucked, but he did contribute to the W.
Outside of the game:
-JL's attitude seems to be much better that JL's. JL states that he needs to get better and has to step up WHENEVER he is called upon.
-JJ - He sounds like Mr. Entitlement. He keeps saying he thinks he played good when he hasn't in certain games. I know things can come out a little strange when you're talking to the press constantly, but let's just say that he hasn't really seemed to take responsibility for certain things going wrong other than the Vandy game.
With the attitudes and production in mind, I'd plan on giving JL the vast majority of snaps in the Florida game. If he starts out awful, then you can just sub JJ in and see if there is any improvement.
-JL clearly is better at throwing screens, etc., that can really help this team move the ball. We should really try to hurt people with these types of plays that are generally safe and then try some big ones when we've got the D playing tight in the middle of the game.
-JJ is not very good at protecting the ball like he has been for his first two years at LSU. Two Int. in 10 passes is unacceptable.
-JL gave us a better chance at throwing 10-15 yards down the field. Yeah, JJ had a few drops, but it shouldn't feel like a big surprise when your QB completes a 10-yard pass.
-JJ is good with that read option play from the shotgun (not the toss option). We do have success with that and should continue to use it in situations to make the D think.
-JJ does get the plays off much better than JL when there is actually a play signaled in (he rarely gets delay penalties). For JL, you can't get a delay penalty on 4th and 9 with the game on the line and then follow it up by taking our last timeout (though the timeout was possibly on our coaches).
-JJ does not get plays off when no call is signaled in (coaches...please make note of this).
-You can't take credit away from JJ's long run because it was a rare play. Without it, that last drive wouldn't have mattered. It would be like taking out JL's long completion because it's a rarity. I know his other long pass was completely awful, but it doesn't take away the fact that he came back and completed a great one.
-For all of JJ's shortcomings, he does always seem to put together enough drives for LSU to be in the game and win it. Remember, our only 10 points that we had with 00:00 remaining on the clock and one untimed play came from his run and a running drive that he lead. So his turnovers sucked, but he did contribute to the W.
Outside of the game:
-JL's attitude seems to be much better that JL's. JL states that he needs to get better and has to step up WHENEVER he is called upon.
-JJ - He sounds like Mr. Entitlement. He keeps saying he thinks he played good when he hasn't in certain games. I know things can come out a little strange when you're talking to the press constantly, but let's just say that he hasn't really seemed to take responsibility for certain things going wrong other than the Vandy game.
With the attitudes and production in mind, I'd plan on giving JL the vast majority of snaps in the Florida game. If he starts out awful, then you can just sub JJ in and see if there is any improvement.
Posted on 10/6/10 at 3:58 pm to OBUDan
quote:
I mean, you are putting precedence on what Lee did at the end of the game (which was nice), but without JJ scampering 83, we lose the game.
You can't just eliminate one thing and favor the other just because it fits your argument.
here you go again for what its worth. say ridley makes 180 yds with JJ in the game - which would have been a HUGE stretch. with his 100 yds, we are still at 288 yds of offense, about where we have been all season - in the bottom half nationally and still pathetic.
As far as your argument about playing both, I said this 2 years ago when Lee had to play full time when the Harvard guy went down. He needs time to see what the D is doing... so I fully agree that JJ needs to play some to allow him to see what's happening until we can learn to trust him whoch may be by the end of the season assuming he progresses.
Posted on 10/6/10 at 3:58 pm to Powerman
quote:
What should be the more obvious point that you're missing is that JJ still couldn't do shite even with the aid of better running from Ridley
And when Lee did better throwing the ball, that for some reason was not enough to help out Ridley.
Posted on 10/6/10 at 4:00 pm to CptBengal
quote:
This blows your argument to shreds....
So when JL is in the game the offense averages more plays, and moves the ball better than when JJ is in the game. Obviously to get more plays he would need to move the chains more, combined with one less series to work wit;
You get JL is BETTER at running the offense and thus should start AND play 90% of the snaps.
Sigh.
Here's your breakdown for that:
JJ:
1 (handicaps him because he scored a fricking TD on 1 play)
3
9
7
5
7
Lee:
6, 5, 6, 5, 16
So Lee's magical power to lead us down the field only really happened once...
JJ had three drives longer than Lee's if you discount the miracle 16 play, 70 yard drive at the end. (I say miracle because you rarely, almost never ever see a drive go 16 plays).
Posted on 10/6/10 at 4:00 pm to Powerman
quote:First, Jefferson can throw. He has had three horrible games.
And they can also bring 8 men in the box 100% of the time because Jefferson can't throw the ball.
The statistics don't tell the story you want them to tell.
Second, if defenses are stacking the box, it is not working against Jefferson. Moreover, it apparently hasn't seemed to work all season because LSU is ranked 33rd in rushing against all BCS opponents.
Posted on 10/6/10 at 4:00 pm to OBUDan
"Anyone can manipulate numbers.
JJ was on the field for 2 TDs.
Lee was on the field for 0."
Your dumb his second one was when Lee drove us all the way down the field going 7 for 9 and making some HUGE throws to get taken out and have jefferson almost fricked us over thank goodness people form Tenn. cant count.
JJ was on the field for 2 TDs.
Lee was on the field for 0."
Your dumb his second one was when Lee drove us all the way down the field going 7 for 9 and making some HUGE throws to get taken out and have jefferson almost fricked us over thank goodness people form Tenn. cant count.
Posted on 10/6/10 at 4:01 pm to Jaketigger
quote:
Jaketigger
Dude, you are so far off in your interpretation of what I'm saying I don't know what to tell you.
I'M NOT SAYING JJ IS BETTER THAN LEE AT PASSING THE FOOTBALL.
Is that better?
WE NEED BOTH.
Posted on 10/6/10 at 4:01 pm to just me
quote:
Jefferson brings a lot to the table.
1. A bad attitude
2. Terrible throwing
3. Awkward running
4. Bad field vision
5. Doesn't take care of the ball
3-10 2 int's 30 yards 0 tds
83 yards rushing (one busted play)
Posted on 10/6/10 at 4:01 pm to PMV124
quote:
Your dumb his second one was when Lee drove us all the way down the field going 7 for 9 and making some HUGE throws to get taken out and have jefferson almost fricked us over thank goodness people form Tenn. cant count.
"Your" dumb for not reading the comment in context.
This post was edited on 10/6/10 at 4:02 pm
Posted on 10/6/10 at 4:02 pm to Powerman
quote:
What' stupid is you're crediting JJ for those long runs
No he wasn't. Don't you find it strange that with a better passing game under JL, Ridley struggled to run last week?
This post was edited on 10/6/10 at 4:03 pm
Posted on 10/6/10 at 4:03 pm to OBUDan
quote:
Also one of the two times Lee "got down there" was on "one of those plays that doesn't happen often."
Right, because a 54 yard pass to a great WR streaking down the sideline doesn't happen as often as a 86 yard read option run from a QB that has never gained more than 6 yard on that play before doesn't.
Posted on 10/6/10 at 4:03 pm to c on z
quote:
c on z
You seem to be one of only two people to understand what I'm saying.
Posted on 10/6/10 at 4:03 pm to OBUDan
quote:
JJ: 6
Lee: 5
Lee capped two of JJ's drives when we got in & long situations.
JJ capped the game winner for Lee.
So basically, Lee started less drives but had more plays. Despite the avg per play, that might suggest that Lee was stringing together drives a little bit more efficiently.
Posted on 10/6/10 at 4:04 pm to musick
quote:
Right, because a 54 yard pass to a great WR streaking down the sideline doesn't happen as often as a 86 yard read option run from a QB that has never gained more than 6 yard on that play before doesn't.
A, he ran it against WVU for a 16 yard TD.
B, it was a 47 pass.
C, plays over 40 yards are a rare occurrence whether they happen in the air or on the ground.
Posted on 10/6/10 at 4:04 pm to TheDoc
quote:
1. A bad attitude
2. Terrible throwing
3. Awkward running
4. Bad field vision
5. Doesn't take care of the ball
3-10 2 int's 30 yards 0 tds
83 yards rushing (one busted play)
It's amazing where you've gone in just a few short months regarding the QB situation Doc.
Posted on 10/6/10 at 4:04 pm to Carlos Santannaclaus
quote:How do you think LSU got to the Tennessee 13 to kick a field goal?
The stat I find most compelling is the only time JJ got close to the end zone was the first play of the game, and on the kind of play that doesn't happen often.
Jefferson drove LSU from LSU's 41 so that LSU could kick that field goal.
LSU loses without those three points.
Posted on 10/6/10 at 4:04 pm to TheDoc
quote:
1. A bad attitude
2. Terrible throwing
3. Awkward running
4. Bad field vision
5. Doesn't take care of the ball
3-10 2 int's 30 yards 0 tds
83 yards rushing (one busted play)
Nice deflection from the actual discussion.
Posted on 10/6/10 at 4:05 pm to just me
quote:
quote:
And they can also bring 8 men in the box 100% of the time because Jefferson can't throw the ball.
The statistics don't tell the story you want them to tell.
First, Jefferson can throw. He has had three horrible games.
Second, if defenses are stacking the box, it is not working against Jefferson. Moreover, it apparently hasn't seemed to work all season because LSU is ranked 33rd in rushing against all BCS opponents.
Pman declared Jay Cutler the best QB in the NFL 3 years ago, so his ability to judge QB talent is well not so good.
This post was edited on 10/6/10 at 4:06 pm
Posted on 10/6/10 at 4:05 pm to Ebbandflow
quote:
So basically, Lee started less drives but had more plays. Despite the avg per play, that might suggest that Lee was stringing together drives a little bit more efficiently.
Not necessarily.
JJ is handicapped by having a 1 play drive.
So that's as good as having only 5 drives.
Lee gets the end drive that was 16 plays, which was more than double any other drive he lead. A few posts up I broke down the play number of each person's drives.
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