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re: Why is Jefferson not an sec type quarterback?
Posted on 1/25/10 at 9:19 pm to TheDoc
Posted on 1/25/10 at 9:19 pm to TheDoc
tigerlee is an idiot. he actually posted that it was jj fault we couldn't run the ball. as if our interior line getting destroyed at the point of attack has nothing to do with it. he also said most teams pass to set up the run. he is an idiot and should be put in an ignore from this point on category
2
Posted on 1/25/10 at 10:15 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
At the end of the season, JJ had 15 starts. Quite a bit. He was better vs Washington than he was Arkansas.
with out seeing any stats, I have to agree with this. JJ could be good for awhile and then horribly ineffective for quarters at a time. maybe the lack of a real running game had taken it's toll on him by game 12. if we can average close to 200 yds rushing per game next season I think we will all see marked improvement for JJ and LSU.
Posted on 1/25/10 at 10:50 pm to natethegreat
12 games, 182/296 [.615] [24.7 att/G], 2116 yds [7.3 ypa, 180.5 ypg], 17-7 TD-INT ratio, 137.18 QB rating
112 rushing yards, 1? TD
To be honest, that's not bad at all. He took a LOT of sacks, granted [and anyone about to make a stupid joke can stfu], but statistically wasn't bad.
112 rushing yards, 1? TD
To be honest, that's not bad at all. He took a LOT of sacks, granted [and anyone about to make a stupid joke can stfu], but statistically wasn't bad.
Posted on 1/25/10 at 10:59 pm to Ponchy Tiger
I want to know myself which is why I'm asking. People say JJ isn't an sec caliber type qb, so I want to know what one is. But no one will answer.
This post was edited on 1/25/10 at 11:00 pm
Posted on 1/25/10 at 11:11 pm to natethegreat
Yeah, I'm backing you up with stats. 
Posted on 1/26/10 at 12:18 am to natethegreat
1.Not accurate
2.Can't read/go through progression and find open receiver quickly enough
3.Poor mechanics/arm slot/foot work, whatever you want to call it.
4.If you want to get really critical -- his arm is just average.
2.Can't read/go through progression and find open receiver quickly enough
3.Poor mechanics/arm slot/foot work, whatever you want to call it.
4.If you want to get really critical -- his arm is just average.
Posted on 1/26/10 at 12:34 am to LittleJerry
He doesn't do one thing really well, just a bunch of things average to below average. The QB position is 1 of 2 things; obviously depending on the player. Either you're a play-maker ala. JRuss, who can do a 360 spin out of a tackle at 260 lbs.(vs. OM), not go out of bounds and get it 50 yards downfield to Early w/ an effortless flick of the risk -- Or you're a Flynn/Mauck who manages the game extremely well, audibles/checks/protection/moves DBs/, distribute ball efficiently to "play-makers", accurate w/n 20 yards, bubbles, slants all in ideal spots for Y.A.C. JJ is neither one of these -- he's not a Flynn/Mauck and he's certainly not a JRuss. One of those he may could develope into. The other is God given. Hopfeully he's taking a few hundred snaps a day in the offseason.
Posted on 1/26/10 at 12:44 am to LittleJerry
Bottom line is that his first full year stats compare favorably to Tommy Hodson's redshirt freshman season. Seems like I remember Hodson being a decent SEC quarterback once upon a time...but, maybe I am off base here. The stats are almost identical, but stats can lie, I suppose.
Of course, Hodson had a better o line than JJ's and a better running attack early in his career, and actually a better defense to give him the ball back and run more plays, but, I know it is not fair to compare JJ to such a bad past qb when considering whether he is an SEC caliber qb AFTER JUST ONE SEASON!!! Geez, have a clue.
Of course, Hodson had a better o line than JJ's and a better running attack early in his career, and actually a better defense to give him the ball back and run more plays, but, I know it is not fair to compare JJ to such a bad past qb when considering whether he is an SEC caliber qb AFTER JUST ONE SEASON!!! Geez, have a clue.
Posted on 1/26/10 at 12:49 am to LittleJerry
quote:
Flynn/Mauck who manages the game extremely well
by throwing more interceptions than jefferson
Posted on 1/26/10 at 4:12 am to LittleJerry
Matt Mauck, 2003:
148.2 passer rating
.640 accuracy
201.8 yards per game
7.9 yards per attempt
28 TDs
14 INTs
20 sacks
Matt Flynn:
125.8 passer rating
.563 accuracy
200.6 yards per game
6.7 yards per attempt
21 TDs
11 INTs
26 sacks
Jordan Jefferson, 2009:
137.2 passer rating
.615 acuracy
180.5 yards per game
7.3 yards per attempt
17 TDs
7 INTs
32 sacks
So basically, Mauck is superior to Flynn and Jefferson. That's fine. Jefferson appears to be a much better 'game manager' than Flynn, though. Look at the ypa and ypg stats. Jefferson has fewer ypg, but more ypa. That's a game manager, and here's why: game managing QBs are supposed to rely on the running game to carry the team. They don't pass much (low ypg), but when they do it's to pick up comfortable chunks of yards (higher ypa). They also should be willing to take a sack instead of throwing an INT; some call it "playing scared," but the real phrase is "playing smart," because a sack is always better than a turnover. The stats show that Jefferson has a tendency to take the sack instead of force an INT; Flynn, as I derive from the stats and recall from watching him, forced the pass and ended up getting intercepted.
Regardless, your argument is not looking very good. The fact that Jefferson is even comparable to Flynn despite Flynn having a supporting cast that's much better than Jefferson ('09 Tigers <<<< '07 Tigers), including a superior offensive line, superior running game, and superior defense (we'll call it even on the receivers) should speak volumes to Jefferson's ability.
ETA: Oh, BTW, Doc, do you live in BR? Sorry if that seems a bit creeper, just randomly thought to ask.
148.2 passer rating
.640 accuracy
201.8 yards per game
7.9 yards per attempt
28 TDs
14 INTs
20 sacks
Matt Flynn:
125.8 passer rating
.563 accuracy
200.6 yards per game
6.7 yards per attempt
21 TDs
11 INTs
26 sacks
Jordan Jefferson, 2009:
137.2 passer rating
.615 acuracy
180.5 yards per game
7.3 yards per attempt
17 TDs
7 INTs
32 sacks
So basically, Mauck is superior to Flynn and Jefferson. That's fine. Jefferson appears to be a much better 'game manager' than Flynn, though. Look at the ypa and ypg stats. Jefferson has fewer ypg, but more ypa. That's a game manager, and here's why: game managing QBs are supposed to rely on the running game to carry the team. They don't pass much (low ypg), but when they do it's to pick up comfortable chunks of yards (higher ypa). They also should be willing to take a sack instead of throwing an INT; some call it "playing scared," but the real phrase is "playing smart," because a sack is always better than a turnover. The stats show that Jefferson has a tendency to take the sack instead of force an INT; Flynn, as I derive from the stats and recall from watching him, forced the pass and ended up getting intercepted.
Regardless, your argument is not looking very good. The fact that Jefferson is even comparable to Flynn despite Flynn having a supporting cast that's much better than Jefferson ('09 Tigers <<<< '07 Tigers), including a superior offensive line, superior running game, and superior defense (we'll call it even on the receivers) should speak volumes to Jefferson's ability.
ETA: Oh, BTW, Doc, do you live in BR? Sorry if that seems a bit creeper, just randomly thought to ask.
This post was edited on 1/26/10 at 4:13 am
Posted on 1/26/10 at 8:58 am to lsutothetop
quote:
So basically, Mauck is superior to Flynn and Jefferson
What appears to be often lost in our "expert" analyst of JJ's short comings is the fact in 03 Mauck was a 24 yr old RS Jr who signed in 2000 and in 07 Flynn was a 22 yr old RS Sr who signed in 03. In 09 JJ was a 19 yr old true So. who signed in 08.
Considering the vast difference in experience and maturity between the three when they were called to take over the starting QB duties, it's kinda amazing, in my mind, that JJ is even able to come close to the Matt's.
Posted on 1/26/10 at 8:59 am to CAJUN LSU MAN
quote:
tigerlee is an idiot. he actually posted that it was jj fault we couldn't run the ball.
No I didnt you fricking liar.
If you are gonna post something at least try to be somewhat truthful.
Posted on 1/26/10 at 9:01 am to CAJUN LSU MAN
quote:
he also said most teams pass to set up the run.
Some teams do.
Lets see ifyour strenght as an offense is throwing the football your fist gonna try to run it? Even though you cant? so you will be forced to throw it?
Not only do you lie, its obv your just not a very smart kid.
Do yourself a favor and just GTFO
Posted on 1/26/10 at 9:08 am to natethegreat
im not doubting his heart or dedication........but the position requires intelligence above and beyond the normal average football player to be a really good quarterback.....every now and again yu will have the occasional average brains at qb and they can be good but most of the time not.......
Posted on 1/26/10 at 9:10 am to natethegreat
im not doubting his heart or dedication........but the position requires intelligence above and beyond the normal average football player to be a really good quarterback.....every now and again yu will have the occasional average brains at qb and they can be good but most of the time not.......
Posted on 1/26/10 at 9:18 am to sharkfhin
actually Im the exact opposite....I doubt JJ's heart and dedication moreso than his smarts.
I get that from what Ive seen at games, heard on the radio and by talking with other people, some of which knows what goes on behind the scenes.
I get that from what Ive seen at games, heard on the radio and by talking with other people, some of which knows what goes on behind the scenes.
This post was edited on 1/26/10 at 9:19 am
Posted on 1/26/10 at 9:40 am to LittleJerry
quote:
LittleJerry
quote:
He doesn't do one thing really well, just a bunch of things average to below average. The QB position is 1 of 2 things; obviously depending on the player. Either you're a play-maker ala. JRuss, who can do a 360 spin out of a tackle at 260 lbs.(vs. OM), not go out of bounds and get it 50 yards downfield to Early w/ an effortless flick of the risk -- Or you're a Flynn/Mauck who manages the game extremely well, audibles/checks/protection/moves DBs/, distribute ball efficiently to "play-makers", accurate w/n 20 yards, bubbles, slants all in ideal spots for Y.A.C. JJ is neither one of these -- he's not a Flynn/Mauck and he's certainly not a JRuss. One of those he may could develope into. The other is God given. Hopfeully he's taking a few hundred snaps a day in the offseason.
been saying this all year, pretty damn good synopsis...
Posted on 1/26/10 at 9:42 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Wrong. JJ's stats were decent, his ability to move the team was awful. The thing that kept him from throwing many INT's also kept him from moving the team. JJ was good for a couple of drives a game.
At the end of the season, JJ had 15 starts. Quite a bit. He was better vs Washington than he was Arkansas.
Id have to agree, the offense sputtered b/c teams took the run away forcing and inexperienced, young QB to beat them....Def and SP Teams bailed us out a lot, thats why games were so close...
Posted on 1/26/10 at 10:41 am to natethegreat
quote:
And is it really fair to compare him to the likes of Flynn, Tebow, manning, etc.?
Compare him to Flynn and Jefferson comes up woefully short. Compare him to Tebow and Manning if you just want to laugh your arse off.
quote:
i mentioned flynn is because he's not as amazing as the other two, but is still apparently somewhat of a gold standard.
Yes, a good, serviceable quarterback who can succeed with an overabundance of talent all around him is now the gold standard at LSU. Sad, but true.
Posted on 1/26/10 at 10:45 am to Lonnie4LSU
quote:
What appears to be often lost in our "expert" analyst of JJ's short comings is the fact in 03 Mauck was a 24 yr old
Ah yes, the youth excuse. With more starts now than Matt Flynn had in his entire career, Jefferson is just too inexperienced to be successful. Next year, he'll only be 20, and 25 years from now he'll only be 44. Maybe if he lives to be 200 years old, he'll finally stop being a rookie.
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