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Posted on 2/20/15 at 10:38 am to slackster
quote:
Most guys in this thread have no clue how UGAZ/DGAZ work and should probably stay out of them. 3x leveraged ETFs are meant for daily positions only. If you hold them for any prolonged period of time, you may find yourself in a world of hurt.
Checking In.
Posted on 2/20/15 at 10:44 am to dkreller
If you want a long term investment with these two ETFs, you should short both of them.
Let's assume UGAZ is up 10% today and down 10% on Monday. Theoretically, DGAZ would be down 10% today and up 10% on Monday. So by the close on Monday, UGAZ and DGAZ will be worth 99% of their value today. This is a simple example, but it highlights the problems long term.
Kudos to those who have guessed correctly lately, but these funds are dicey and really not designed for the average investor. This doesn't even touch on the implications of being a pattern day trader if you start trading them daily.
Let's assume UGAZ is up 10% today and down 10% on Monday. Theoretically, DGAZ would be down 10% today and up 10% on Monday. So by the close on Monday, UGAZ and DGAZ will be worth 99% of their value today. This is a simple example, but it highlights the problems long term.
Kudos to those who have guessed correctly lately, but these funds are dicey and really not designed for the average investor. This doesn't even touch on the implications of being a pattern day trader if you start trading them daily.
Posted on 2/20/15 at 10:52 am to slackster
quote:
Most guys in this thread have no clue how UGAZ/DGAZ work and should probably stay out of them.
^^^^ THIS
Me Included. Got out today with 10% profit after holding my breath for weeks wondering if I'd ever get to unwind. Got ugly for a while.
Posted on 2/20/15 at 10:59 am to dkreller
The price of UGAZ and DGAZ get disconnected from the price of natural gas over long time spans, regardless of volatility. DGAZ and UGAZ have BOTH lost approximately 90% of their value since the funds were established, Feb 6, 2012. NG traded around $2.40 then, while today it's just under $3.00. The math doesn't work over long time spans.
This post was edited on 2/20/15 at 11:01 am
Posted on 2/20/15 at 11:17 am to sneakytiger
Thinking about cutting my losses and getting out
Posted on 2/20/15 at 11:26 am to TheIndulger
I'm hoping for a bullish run over the next couple of weeks due to the cold and then I might take my losses. Having 1146 shares at $8.05, if I can get up to $5 a share, I might roll- heck $6 a share would be a huge victory at this point.
I definitely botched it investing in this. First, I didn't understand decay at all when I bought. Luckily, I made $1k Thanksgiving week after holding a week in the mid teens. I bought back in when it pulled down to $11, then bought in more at $4.70. Originally, my plan was that natural gas has to get more expensive in the winter and I would ride it up, take some gains and bounce. I didn't think at all about the possibility that demand was already priced in and I had huge downside risk due to production being high and demand being below the level priced in. Good lesson for me- making a quick buck doesn't work out well in many cases. Once I eventually sell this position, never again trading triple leveraged commodities.
I definitely botched it investing in this. First, I didn't understand decay at all when I bought. Luckily, I made $1k Thanksgiving week after holding a week in the mid teens. I bought back in when it pulled down to $11, then bought in more at $4.70. Originally, my plan was that natural gas has to get more expensive in the winter and I would ride it up, take some gains and bounce. I didn't think at all about the possibility that demand was already priced in and I had huge downside risk due to production being high and demand being below the level priced in. Good lesson for me- making a quick buck doesn't work out well in many cases. Once I eventually sell this position, never again trading triple leveraged commodities.
Posted on 2/20/15 at 11:33 am to sneakytiger
quote:
The math doesn't work over long time spans.
I thought everyone here already knew this? I don't think anybody is looking at this as a viable long term "investment". At least I hope they aren't.
Posted on 2/20/15 at 12:21 pm to jlu03
quote:
Bro, everyday is chest day.
Posted on 2/20/15 at 12:22 pm to sneakytiger
Has anyone made serious money off this? Just casually interested. This is too much for my blood
Posted on 2/20/15 at 12:28 pm to GenesChin
I'm up 7% so far this year.
Posted on 2/20/15 at 12:36 pm to GenesChin
quote:
Has anyone made serious money off this?
Everyone in this thread was killing it until about 4 months ago when the energy sector got hammered. I was up more than 50% for the year...."was" being the key word
. I got too greedy. You live and learn.
Posted on 2/20/15 at 3:01 pm to rintintin
No big deal if you're deemed a PDT, so long as you meet the SEC requirements. Sometimes your brokerage house's requirements are firmer than the SEC's. Anyway, I've been deemed a PDT a long time ago. It doesn't change anything for me except my margin requirements are higher than the average retail account, which I already meet anyway.
The leveraged etf's and debt notes were always designed to be day traded, and no held long term. They disclose this in their prospectuses.
I question some on here and they're usage of these as well, and mostly stick to UNG as I many times hold longer than a day.
Anyway. A couple of guys on this thread are trading serious money, have made and lost serious money. I suspect they know what they're doing as much as anyone can.
The leveraged etf's and debt notes were always designed to be day traded, and no held long term. They disclose this in their prospectuses.
I question some on here and they're usage of these as well, and mostly stick to UNG as I many times hold longer than a day.
Anyway. A couple of guys on this thread are trading serious money, have made and lost serious money. I suspect they know what they're doing as much as anyone can.
Posted on 2/22/15 at 9:52 pm to Iowa Golfer
Just read a couple different reports saying the cold weather will end by mid March for most of the country.
I plan on purchasing a large amount of puts in UNG later this week after we get through this blast. Good luck to those still in UGAZ.
I plan on purchasing a large amount of puts in UNG later this week after we get through this blast. Good luck to those still in UGAZ.
Posted on 2/23/15 at 6:39 am to jlu03
UGAZ way up and UWTI way down pre market.
might buy UGAZ at opening and let it go up a few % then sell. Also might buy some UWTI to hopefully sell later today if it goes up some.
but it's a long time before opening bell, let's see what they do.
might buy UGAZ at opening and let it go up a few % then sell. Also might buy some UWTI to hopefully sell later today if it goes up some.
but it's a long time before opening bell, let's see what they do.
Posted on 2/23/15 at 7:28 am to white perch
where do you see the premarket price? looking and can't seem to find it
edit: nevermind I see it..up almost 3%
edit: nevermind I see it..up almost 3%
This post was edited on 2/23/15 at 7:31 am
Posted on 2/23/15 at 8:40 am to TheIndulger
in, UWTI at 2.95
Posted on 2/23/15 at 9:23 am to white perch
quote:
in, UWTI at 2.95
3 shares?
Posted on 2/23/15 at 10:32 am to TigeRoots
Posted on 2/23/15 at 12:43 pm to white perch
quote:
in, UWTI at 2.95
sold at 3.09, profit of 4.75% today
and no, it was not 3 shares
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