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re: Best Baseball Player Ever
Posted on 7/20/08 at 12:19 am to BayouBengals03
Posted on 7/20/08 at 12:19 am to BayouBengals03
quote:
all the crashes into wall caught up with him,
And him not being on steroids caught up to him. If you realize, his stats didn't go up when he got into his late 30s. I wonder why guys like Bonds and Clemens' stats did?
0
Posted on 7/20/08 at 12:19 am to schulte
It's not just about home runs though. That's why Aaron isn't really even in the discussion right now. As exciting as Griffey was to watch, he only put up an OBP above .400 twice, while Bonds did it every year from 1990-1998, and again in 2000, being north of .430 most of those years. He has the gold gloves to go with it too (though that's not necessarily the best measure of defense)
Posted on 7/20/08 at 12:22 am to someoldhussy
Griffey would have hit 800-900 homeruns if he stayed completely healthy. And I have no doubt in my mind about that.
Posted on 7/20/08 at 12:28 am to BayouBengals03
Griffeys body type has changed also. But to single out Bonds ismy only issue, until he is proven, not by heresay or public opinion, I have to say he is deserving of his records.
I will also argue that if you put Griffey in San Fran they go after him like they did Bonds.
I will also argue that if you put Griffey in San Fran they go after him like they did Bonds.
This post was edited on 7/20/08 at 12:29 am
Posted on 7/20/08 at 12:31 am to BayouBengals03
I realize everyone is entitled to their own opinion. And in my opinion, I just can't put guys like Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, Mark McGuire, Sammy Sosa, or Rafael Palmero anywhere on my list of top 20 or 30 players of all-time (Not that Sosa or Palmero deserved to be there anyway). They were the main homerun hitters in a steroid era. And in my opinion, they all enhanced their performance with drugs. I just can't consider anything Bonds did from 2000 on as the real Barry Bonds. I just can't. And it's sad because many people feel the same. Look at the numbers this year. Now that they have cracked down a little bit more on the testing, the homerun numbers are lower than they have been in 15 years. I just can't bring myself to believe that is a coincidence.
I know Bonds hasn't been proven guilty of anything, I guess, but the guy hit 74 fricken homeruns when he was 37 years old after never hitting more than 46 at anytime before 2000 in his career. The more I think about it, I don't know anyone could defend him.
I know Bonds hasn't been proven guilty of anything, I guess, but the guy hit 74 fricken homeruns when he was 37 years old after never hitting more than 46 at anytime before 2000 in his career. The more I think about it, I don't know anyone could defend him.
This post was edited on 7/20/08 at 12:36 am
Posted on 7/20/08 at 12:35 am to BayouBengals03
quote:
Griffey would have hit 800-900 homeruns if he stayed completely healthy. And I have no doubt in my mind about that.
And? That would still be the only stat he beat Bonds in. Bonds was better than Griffey every single year of their careers. Some of that can be attributed to the age gap, with Griffey starting out so strong, but Bonds was better anyway if you compare their seasons ages 26-35 (pre-2001 for Bonds).
quote:
I just can't consider anything Bonds did from 2000 on as the real Barry Bonds. I just can't.
Then don't! Just look at 1990-2000, he was an incredible player.
This post was edited on 7/20/08 at 12:38 am
Posted on 7/20/08 at 12:37 am to BayouBengals03
I can defend the HR easily, and you can disagree with some or all.
1. Smaller Parks
2. Balls Wound Tighter
3. Maple Bat he started to use
4. Expansion (worse pitching)
Now to say he was all natural, I will say he was on creatine, andro, or something (that was not illegal) but he hasnt been proved to be on anything illegal, that is how I defend him. I also think the Chronicle, Book of Shadows, and Bayless all have gained financially from their dogged "persecution" of Bonds. I will again say he asnt the best guy, team mate, or interview; but until proven guilty he is considered innocent.
Sosa to me has been the most flagarant violater, as he just exploded in size. And when qestioned and then offered by some he refused. That might be my Cub bias though.
1. Smaller Parks
2. Balls Wound Tighter
3. Maple Bat he started to use
4. Expansion (worse pitching)
Now to say he was all natural, I will say he was on creatine, andro, or something (that was not illegal) but he hasnt been proved to be on anything illegal, that is how I defend him. I also think the Chronicle, Book of Shadows, and Bayless all have gained financially from their dogged "persecution" of Bonds. I will again say he asnt the best guy, team mate, or interview; but until proven guilty he is considered innocent.
Sosa to me has been the most flagarant violater, as he just exploded in size. And when qestioned and then offered by some he refused. That might be my Cub bias though.
Posted on 7/20/08 at 12:39 am to BayouBengals03
quote:
BayouBengals03
you do realize that A-Rod also was that small coming up? They were still growing kids!! Until a positive drug test comes out Bonds will go down as the greatest offensive player ever
ETA: you used McGwire (that's how it is spelled) as an example. You do remember he hit 49 homers his rookie season
This post was edited on 7/20/08 at 12:41 am
Posted on 7/20/08 at 12:40 am to schulte
He hit 25 more homeruns than he ever had.
Posted on 7/20/08 at 12:43 am to BayouBengals03
And how many were in Minute Maid? If I remember right that was year it opened. The point is that the parks were smaller and the equipment was different. Bonds always had the power.
This post was edited on 7/20/08 at 12:46 am
Posted on 7/20/08 at 12:46 am to schulte
quote:
And? That would still be the only stat he beat Bonds in. Bonds was better than Griffey every single year of their careers. Some of that can be attributed to the age gap, with Griffey starting out so strong, but Bonds was better anyway if you compare their seasons ages 26-35 (pre-2001 for Bonds).
This is just completely not true. Griffey's stats from 1996-1999 were better than Bonds.
Posted on 7/20/08 at 12:51 am to BayouBengals03
quote:
Bonds will go down as the greatest offensive player ever
I guess that's your opinion. But not many HOF voters will share that opinion. The majority think he got a little help. It will be weird to see a guy with those numbers not in the Hall, at least not right away.
Posted on 7/20/08 at 12:54 am to BayouBengals03
quote:
I guess that's your opinion
I guess that was a response for me? (learn to use the board)
quote:
But not many HOF voters will share that opinion
being in the Hall is going to make him the greatest?
quote:
The majority think he got a little help.
as did about 50% of those in the hall
Posted on 7/20/08 at 12:54 am to BayouBengals03
quote:
But not many HOF voters will share that opinion. The majority think he got a little help
The HOF and BWAA have held grudges, and some did not even list people on the ballot because they didnt like them personally. That is why I think it is a joke sometimes. I like the NFL HOF since the formerplayers have a vote.
Also I will find a link that explains why I think he will get in...Michael Jack Schmidt..best 3rd baseman of all ime by some, said he would have considered doing such performance enhancing drugs if available.
Posted on 7/20/08 at 12:58 am to schulte
I just want to ask you guys one question. Forget that he has not been proven guilty of anything in a court of law. Forget all of his numbers and everything we've talked about so far. Forget that a lot of players used steroids during this era and also deserve to be punished for it. Forget all of that.
Do you guys think Barry Bonds used steroids?
Do you guys think Barry Bonds used steroids?
Posted on 7/20/08 at 12:58 am to schulte
Washington Post August 2005
Last month Schmidt told HBO that he "would have taken steroids" had he played in the late 1990s. While the Hall of Fame third baseman wasn't as absolute yesterday at a ceremony inducting former C Bob Boone to the Phillies' Wall of Fame, he acknowledged that he may not have been able to overcome the temptation to use performance-enhancing drugs.
"I'm not saying I definitely would have, but I'm not going to sit here and tell you there's no way," he said. "Who knows? I truly can't make the statement, 'I wouldn't have gotten caught up in it.
Last month Schmidt told HBO that he "would have taken steroids" had he played in the late 1990s. While the Hall of Fame third baseman wasn't as absolute yesterday at a ceremony inducting former C Bob Boone to the Phillies' Wall of Fame, he acknowledged that he may not have been able to overcome the temptation to use performance-enhancing drugs.
"I'm not saying I definitely would have, but I'm not going to sit here and tell you there's no way," he said. "Who knows? I truly can't make the statement, 'I wouldn't have gotten caught up in it.
Posted on 7/20/08 at 12:59 am to BayouBengals03
quote:
This is just completely not true. Griffey's stats from 1996-1999 were better than Bonds.
Okay, well lets take a look: (pick top or bottom)(BA/OBP/SLG HR/SB BB/K RC/27 OPS+)
96:
.308/.461/.615 42/40 1.99 11.46 188
.303/.392/.628 49/16 0.75 9.65 153
97:
.291/.446/.585 40/37 1.67 10.14 170
.304/.382/.646 56/15 0.63 9.10 165
98:
.303/.438/.609 37/28 1.41 9.83 178
.284/.365/.611 56/20 0.63 8.04 150
99:
.262/.389/.617 34/15 1.18 9.02 155
.285/.384/.576 48/24 0.84 8.35 130
Posted on 7/20/08 at 1:00 am to BayouBengals03
quote:
Do you guys think Barry Bonds used steroids?
let me ask you a question...who fricking cares?
Posted on 7/20/08 at 1:00 am to BayouBengals03
He used something (Creatine, Andro, EAS Energy drink), but I dont know if it was an anabolic...again until he has been proven guilty, I wont say he has.
Posted on 7/20/08 at 1:03 am to geauxlsu07
quote:
geauxlsu07
I cant believe NOBODY has mentioned these 2 yet...
Stan Musial
Bob Gibson the BEST ATHLETE and most complete player in the 60's...they effing changed the rules because of him, and he also was used as a hitter/runner on days he wasnt throwing
This post was edited on 7/20/08 at 1:04 am
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