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re: Big Ten expansion: yea or nay?
Posted on 9/28/09 at 6:13 pm to VABuckeye
Posted on 9/28/09 at 6:13 pm to VABuckeye
quote:
What three teams in the Big Ten played each other every year in this cycle? Ohio State, Michigan and Penn State.
Wrong. Michigan's two Big Ten perms are MSU and OSU. It plays PSU 78% of the time just like it plays the other 8. At any rate, you think the fact that Iowa plays Michigan only 7/9 years makes that big of a difference? Brilliant.
And you cite the hypothetical east's dominance over the hypothetical west based on the presumed dominance of a school that went 2-6 in Big Ten play last year.
You got pwn3d.
2
Posted on 9/28/09 at 6:18 pm to ProjectP2294
quote:
this would almost assuredly cause the big east to lose their auto-bid unless they put the screws to Notre Dame, telling them to get fricked in every other sport if you don't want to play football.
I still don't understand why the Big East doesn't do this to ND now.
Posted on 9/28/09 at 6:19 pm to xiv
quote:
And you cite the hypothetical east's dominance over the hypothetical west based on the presumed dominance of a school that went 2-6 in Big Ten play last year.
You can't be this dumb.
Posted on 9/28/09 at 7:40 pm to SprintFun
quote:I see. No response at all.
You can't be this dumb.
If you think that the Big Ten East would have anything more than a slight edge over the Big Ten West, you are mistaken.
Posted on 9/28/09 at 7:43 pm to xiv
quote:
If you think that the Big Ten East would have anything more than a slight edge over the Big Ten West, you are mistaken.
Or we can just look at the history of the conference and realize that you have no basis to your argument that your hypothetical west could compete with the east yearly.
Posted on 9/28/09 at 8:02 pm to xiv
we don't need another team sucking it up in the bowl games <cough> notre dame <cough>
Posted on 9/28/09 at 8:26 pm to VABuckeye
quote:Interesting word of emphasis.
Or we can just look at the history of the conference and realize that you have no basis to your argument that your hypothetical west could compete with the east yearly.
Let's look at two histories: all-time, and this decade. Pretty arbitrary, but it should be fun to look at and see how balanced/imbalanced my hypothetical Big Ten divisions are.
All-time rankings (according to The College Football Data Warehouse):
xiv Big Ten Hypothetical East (avg 34.9):
Michigan 4
Ohio State 7
Penn State 14
Michigan State 27
Indiana 58
Cincinnati 99
xiv Big Ten Hypothetical West (avg 32.3):
Minnesota 17
Illinois 22
Wisconsin 34
Iowa 35
Purdue 40
Northwestern 46
I know, I know. Cincinnati used to be in the damn MAC. Hardly fair to make the argument that the West is better than the East, historically/top-to-bottom. Let's do the past decade. Sounds reasonable, yes?
All-time rankings (according to The College Football Data Warehouse):
xiv Big Ten Hypothetical East (avg 35):
Ohio State 5
Michigan 12
Penn State 20
Michigan State 41
Cincinnati 61
Indiana 71
xiv Big Ten Hypothetical West (avg 41.3):
Wisconsin 25
Iowa 27
Purdue 33
Northwestern 51
Minnesota 55
Illinois 57
If you think that a 6-spot difference in the ranking of the average team from each division is what makes a conference significantly imbalanced, then you and I simply disagree. I can tell you, however, that I look at these numbers obsessively, and only lsumatt can outwit me in conversations like these.
Only as a point of reference, the Big XII South has an average of 37.5 this decade, as compared to the North's 47.7, and there is no talk of the conference actually suffering from a lack of balance. There have been two awful conference championship games as a result of the imbalance, but the conference has been the 2nd strongest this decade.
quote:
you have no basis to your argument that your hypothetical west could compete with the east yearly.
My hypothetical Big Ten is more balanced than this decade's Big XII, and I think Saturday's game in Happy Valley suggests that any Big Ten Championship Game would likely be competitive.
This post was edited on 9/28/09 at 8:32 pm
Posted on 9/28/09 at 9:28 pm to xiv
You are so fricking retarded. You just proved that the East has 3 teams historically above the best west team.
You talk about history, but make a stink about Michigan's poor performance that happened for one year.
You have zero consistency in what you're talking about.
You talk about history, but make a stink about Michigan's poor performance that happened for one year.
You have zero consistency in what you're talking about.
Posted on 9/28/09 at 9:28 pm to xiv
quote:
Ohio State 5
Michigan 12
Penn State 20
My point is that you are penalizing the top three teams in the conference by putting them in the same division. I wouldn't mind seeing a 12th team and a championship game. Ohio State is tied to Michigan and Penn State every year so it would make sense to put at least one of the other teams in the other division.
Would you want to see the perennial top three teams in the SEC in the same division?
Posted on 9/28/09 at 9:30 pm to SprintFun
quote:
You have zero consistency in what you're talking about.
germans
Posted on 9/28/09 at 9:31 pm to VABuckeye
quote:
Would you want to see the perennial top three teams in the SEC in the same division?
EVERY WEEK IN THE SEC IS TOUGH!
Posted on 9/28/09 at 9:32 pm to BuckeyeFan87
quote:
EVERY WEEK IN THE SEC IS TOUGH!
Well, this is true. Not that it isn't in other conferences too.
Posted on 9/28/09 at 9:50 pm to xiv
quote:
xiv
You and LSUMatt shouldn't be in the same sentence fwiw.
Posted on 9/28/09 at 9:57 pm to VABuckeye
quote:
Would you want to see the perennial top three teams in the SEC in the same division?
West
Auburn
Bama
LSU
East
Florida
UGA
Tennessee
That is pretty damn solid. Is it fair that each division has two other elite programs in it?
Posted on 9/28/09 at 10:09 pm to xiv
Nay... cause I don't want to hear the Big Ten fans complaining every year!
Posted on 9/28/09 at 10:12 pm to Me Bite
Complaining about what?
Posted on 9/28/09 at 10:19 pm to SprintFun
quote:
Complaining about what?
Posted on 9/28/09 at 10:40 pm to VABuckeye
quote:It's happened before; it's really not that big of a deal. You make it seem as if OSU/PSU/UM are all bad-arse year in and year out; it simply isn't the case. Ohio State has been the elite team in the conference this decade; Iowa and Wisconsin are in the Big Ten title picture as often as Michigan and Penn State are, at least in this decade. And even when Iowa isn't in the race, they can beat someone who is. Again, my hypothetical Big Ten is more balanced than the Big XII now.
Would you want to see the perennial top three teams in the SEC in the same division?
And besides, your scenario has actually happened only twice since PSU entered the Big Ten. It's not like it's a constant thing.
This post was edited on 9/28/09 at 10:43 pm
Posted on 9/28/09 at 11:16 pm to xiv
A conference championship would be great for the Big10; in looking a your scenerio I would divide it up North and South (granted the line may be skewed a little) instead of East and West. I would add Notre Dame instead of Cincinnati. (Yes I know that may never happen), but if it could this is how I would align the divisions.
Using your rating syetem:
North Division Avg. 34.0
Top 3 teams: Avg. 17
Bottom 3 teams: Avg. 51
Michigan 12
Michigan State 41
Wisconsin 25
Minnesota 55
Illinois 57
ND14
South Division Avg. 34.5
Top 3 teams Avg.: 17.3
Bottom 3 team Avg.: 51.6
Northwestern51
Purdue 33
Penn State 20
Ohio State 5
Indiana 71
Iowa 27
FWIW
Using your rating syetem:
North Division Avg. 34.0
Top 3 teams: Avg. 17
Bottom 3 teams: Avg. 51
Michigan 12
Michigan State 41
Wisconsin 25
Minnesota 55
Illinois 57
ND14
South Division Avg. 34.5
Top 3 teams Avg.: 17.3
Bottom 3 team Avg.: 51.6
Northwestern51
Purdue 33
Penn State 20
Ohio State 5
Indiana 71
Iowa 27
FWIW
This post was edited on 9/28/09 at 11:37 pm
Posted on 9/28/09 at 11:52 pm to jt696
The Big XII and SEC are split geographically, and they usually kick arse. The ACC is split arbitrarily, and it's a weaker conference. I think any split that is not purely geographic highlights a conference's weakness.
FWIW, if I ruled the world, the ACC would be split this way:
North: Boston College, Maryland, Virginia, Virginia Tech
Central: Duke, North Carolina, North Carolina State, Wake Forest
South: Clemson, Florida State, Georgia Tech, Miami
Top two division winners meet for the title. Third division winner, if not selected to a BCS game, goes to the Gator Bowl. (I've done the math, and it is impossible for all three division champions to go 8-0.)
Well, while we're at it, let's see what the Big Ten looks like with three four-team divisions:
East: Cincinnati, Michigan State, Ohio State, Penn State (love this because it's the four newest members)
Central: Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Purdue
West: Iowa, Minnesota, Northwestern, Wisconsin
(Giving each team one perm rival in each of the two other divisions preserves all "necessary" rivalries.)
FWIW, if I ruled the world, the ACC would be split this way:
North: Boston College, Maryland, Virginia, Virginia Tech
Central: Duke, North Carolina, North Carolina State, Wake Forest
South: Clemson, Florida State, Georgia Tech, Miami
Top two division winners meet for the title. Third division winner, if not selected to a BCS game, goes to the Gator Bowl. (I've done the math, and it is impossible for all three division champions to go 8-0.)
Well, while we're at it, let's see what the Big Ten looks like with three four-team divisions:
East: Cincinnati, Michigan State, Ohio State, Penn State (love this because it's the four newest members)
Central: Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Purdue
West: Iowa, Minnesota, Northwestern, Wisconsin
(Giving each team one perm rival in each of the two other divisions preserves all "necessary" rivalries.)
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