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Posted on 3/12/10 at 10:54 pm to Doc Lou
What's the episode name for episode 16
Posted on 3/12/10 at 11:18 pm to darbour21
Posted on 3/13/10 at 12:30 am to OMLandshark
Oh, I just rewatched "The Shape of Things to Come", and there is a quote of Widmore that caught my attention this time around, when Ben asks when he started sleeping with a bottle of scot next to his bed, Widmore says "When the nightmares started". The Monster can communicate through dreams, so maybe the Monster kept coercing him when he got off the Island and he literally has been giving Charles nightmares.
Posted on 3/13/10 at 7:09 am to OMLandshark
quote:
OMLandshark
im convinced. you are the end all be all of lost info.
Posted on 3/13/10 at 11:53 am to OMLandshark
quote:
Oh, I just rewatched "The Shape of Things to Come", and there is a quote of Widmore that caught my attention this time around, when Ben asks when he started sleeping with a bottle of scot next to his bed, Widmore says "When the nightmares started". The Monster can communicate through dreams, so maybe the Monster kept coercing him when he got off the Island and he literally has been giving Charles nightmares.
Nice deduction and seems plausible. I still think MIB would love to use Widmore to get off the island due to his resources including of course his submarine.
Posted on 3/13/10 at 12:00 pm to davesdawgs
quote:
I still think MIB would love to use Widmore to get off the island due to his resources including of course his submarine.
Widmore may end up helping the MIB unwittingly.
Posted on 3/13/10 at 12:12 pm to theunknownknight
quote:
quote:
I still think MIB would love to use Widmore to get off the island due to his resources including of course his submarine.
Widmore may end up helping the MIB unwittingly.
Nods. Widmore seems greedy obviously due to his wealth/power. As some have suggested Widmore might want to use the island's time travel properties as a literal fountain of youth. I would not be surprised to see MIB make the same offer to Widmore that he made to Ben; basically as the leader of the island if/when MIB escapes.
Posted on 3/13/10 at 12:45 pm to davesdawgs
Is anyone assuming that Jacob and Esau (MIB) are actually the same Jacob and Esau from the Bible and somehow they are still alive on this island? With Esau being the eldest in the bible story he was entitled to all the father's wealth but he ended up selling his birthright to Jacob for some lentil.
While Jacob was widely considered to be the "good one," one theory out there is that Esau was in danger of starving to death and Jacob took advantage of Esau exacting a huge price (the birthright) for the food. Obviously if this scenario is true, Jacob could be seen as the "bad one."
So maybe "Locke"/MIB/Esau is just trying to get his birthright back?
This is pretty cool too...
The Book of Jubilees has this story (from Wiki):
ETA: Never mind...I just searched "Esau" on the board and see that all of the above has been thoroughly discussed. I hate being late to a show. You miss out on all the fun discussion and debate.
While Jacob was widely considered to be the "good one," one theory out there is that Esau was in danger of starving to death and Jacob took advantage of Esau exacting a huge price (the birthright) for the food. Obviously if this scenario is true, Jacob could be seen as the "bad one."
So maybe "Locke"/MIB/Esau is just trying to get his birthright back?
This is pretty cool too...
The Book of Jubilees has this story (from Wiki):
quote:
In the Book of Jubilees (which is neither part of the Jewish nor most Christian canons), Esau's father, Isaac, compels Esau to swear not to attack or kill Jacob after Isaac has died. However, after the death of Isaac, the sons of Esau convince their father to lead them, and hired mercenaries, against Jacob in order to kill Jacob and his family and seize their wealth (especially the portion of Isaac's wealth that Isaac had left to Jacob upon his death). In the ensuing battle, Jacob kills Esau with an arrow. The sons of Jacob then defeat the rest of the attackers despite overwhelming odds.
Some of the sons of Esau are spared, but they are sworn to serve and pay fealty to Jacob.
ETA: Never mind...I just searched "Esau" on the board and see that all of the above has been thoroughly discussed. I hate being late to a show. You miss out on all the fun discussion and debate.
This post was edited on 3/13/10 at 1:52 pm
Posted on 3/13/10 at 12:51 pm to davesdawgs
quote:
Nods. Widmore seems greedy obviously due to his wealth/power. As some have suggested Widmore might want to use the island's time travel properties as a literal fountain of youth. I would not be surprised to see MIB make the same offer to Widmore that he made to Ben; basically as the leader of the island if/when MIB escapes.
If Jacob can give immortality, I think that the Monster may be able to too. I think that maybe what he offered Widmore, and his offer to Ben was still authentic.
Posted on 3/13/10 at 2:35 pm to OMLandshark
this thread was getting very close to the bottom of the page and i just couldnt let it die.
So How about those Polar Bears...
So How about those Polar Bears...
Posted on 3/13/10 at 4:37 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
quote:
Nods. Widmore seems greedy obviously due to his wealth/power. As some have suggested Widmore might want to use the island's time travel properties as a literal fountain of youth. I would not be surprised to see MIB make the same offer to Widmore that he made to Ben; basically as the leader of the island if/when MIB escapes. I would guess that MIB will more than likely use deceit like he did with Ben to get whatever he wants.
If Jacob can give immortality, I think that the Monster may be able to too. I think that maybe what he offered Widmore, and his offer to Ben was still authentic.
Another good point. Widmore is getting on in years and given his wealth/power I think he would trade a lot for increased longevity and given that the MIB has apparently been trapped on the island for hundreds of years he would likely bestow immortality in a New York second in order to escape.
This post was edited on 3/13/10 at 5:36 pm
Posted on 3/13/10 at 11:29 pm to davesdawgs
Has anyone had any theories as to why Richard told Hurley not to listen to dead Jacob? Is it possible that MIB can use any dead person (even Jacob) to talk to certain characters like in some of the earlier seasons (for instance, when he used Ben's daughter to get him to "do what Locke says no matter what")? That way, MIB could still be acting on his own behalf but in a seemingly harmless form. Hurley would be a lot more likely to follow something coming from Jacob.
For some reason, I just assumed that Jacob was special enough where his form couldn't be used. Maybe that's not the case.
For some reason, I just assumed that Jacob was special enough where his form couldn't be used. Maybe that's not the case.
This post was edited on 3/14/10 at 12:39 am
Posted on 3/14/10 at 9:16 am to tuck
quote:
Is it possible that MIB can use any dead person (even Jacob)
might be possible, but I highly doubt it. that would be over the top confusing/annoying
Posted on 3/14/10 at 9:23 am to vorenus23
meh
Posted on 3/14/10 at 9:33 am to PortCityTiger24
Posted on 3/14/10 at 9:41 am to tuck
ilana said he was stuck as locke now... therefore the jacob is actually jacob and not MIB
Posted on 3/14/10 at 10:14 am to tuck
quote:
Is it possible that MIB can use any dead person (even Jacob) to talk to certain characters like in some of the earlier seasons
wrong
MIB as smokey has killed countless people. And yet, who has he taken the form of?
Christian - drank himself to death in Australia
Yemi - died on gunshot wound in Africa
Alex - took one in the head at Dharmaville
Locke - Killed by Ben in LA
So, he can only take the form of those he has not killed it seems. It also seems that he needs the full body somewhat intact. So, even though Ben killed Jacob, when he kicked Jacob's body in the firepit, that pretty much eliminated that option, maybe it was pride.
Posted on 3/14/10 at 12:32 pm to The Eric
quote:Yeah I remember that, but didn't Locke take the form of Alex to persuade Ben to kill Jacob? I guess maybe when Ben killed Jacob that made him "stuck" in Locke's form? Seems kind of random.
ilana said he was stuck as locke now... therefore the jacob is actually jacob and not MIB
I will say that when Locke saw Jacob, however, it was as a kid, not an adult. Does Jacob just pick what form he appears to people as? If so, why?
This post was edited on 3/14/10 at 12:34 pm
Posted on 3/14/10 at 4:40 pm to tuck
quote:
Has anyone had any theories as to why Richard told Hurley not to listen to dead Jacob? Is it possible that MIB can use any dead person (even Jacob) to talk to certain characters like in some of the earlier seasons (for instance, when he used Ben's daughter to get him to "do what Locke says no matter what")? That way, MIB could still be acting on his own behalf but in a seemingly harmless form. Hurley would be a lot more likely to follow something coming from Jacob.
For some reason, I just assumed that Jacob was special enough where his form couldn't be used. Maybe that's not the case.
It would make for an interesting twist but I get the feeling at this point the writers are trying to get fans down the home stretch without introducing any additional confusion. I think Richard's statement might be explained by his emotional state after the death of Jacob. For instance, Richard was so distraught that he tried to get Jack to kill him with dynamite.
Keep in mind also that some of the apparent inconsistencies seem to be by design just to keep viewers guessing/digging for answers.
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