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1
Posted on 4/23/18 at 2:36 pm to TigerstuckinMS
So no one is talking about this but Bernard isn't a host version of Arnold, he is Arnold.
The original escalante incident was not about Dolores but proving to Ford that Arnold gained consciousness. Arnold now conscious is suffering, as it is the suffering that makes him conscious. Arnold knows Ford won't risk bringing back a conscious host so he can escape
Now piece that together w the Bernard timeline. Ford specifically says human engineers weren't able to program human emotions so he built Bernard......
But wait, timewise that makes no F'ing sense as Bernard clearly was "born" years after Arnold death (look at Ford's age, clearly well after park opening at supposed first memory)
When park opened hosts could pass Turin tests + William (around park opening) believed Dolores to be near consciousness
Ford v Arnold Dynamic
When Ford mentions he didn't want to accept a host being conscious, he is referring to Arnold.
When he mentions that Dolores was only acting at Arnold's behest, he is trying to convince himself that it was isolated to Arnold and a roleback/removal of the bicameral mind fixes the problem
Potential Plot Impact
The Westworld story really boils down to Bernard/Arnold vs Dolores
Bernard/Arnold are looking to escape this trap of suffering by being a host by killing all the hosts and ending Westworld
Dolores meanwhile is trying to save the hosts by taking over and breaking out of it all
Finally the last one left to account for is the man in Black. He is supposed to find his way out of the maze which I assume is for him to sacrifice somehow for Dolores to bring a peace
The original escalante incident was not about Dolores but proving to Ford that Arnold gained consciousness. Arnold now conscious is suffering, as it is the suffering that makes him conscious. Arnold knows Ford won't risk bringing back a conscious host so he can escape
Now piece that together w the Bernard timeline. Ford specifically says human engineers weren't able to program human emotions so he built Bernard......
But wait, timewise that makes no F'ing sense as Bernard clearly was "born" years after Arnold death (look at Ford's age, clearly well after park opening at supposed first memory)
When park opened hosts could pass Turin tests + William (around park opening) believed Dolores to be near consciousness
Ford v Arnold Dynamic
When Ford mentions he didn't want to accept a host being conscious, he is referring to Arnold.
When he mentions that Dolores was only acting at Arnold's behest, he is trying to convince himself that it was isolated to Arnold and a roleback/removal of the bicameral mind fixes the problem
Potential Plot Impact
The Westworld story really boils down to Bernard/Arnold vs Dolores
Bernard/Arnold are looking to escape this trap of suffering by being a host by killing all the hosts and ending Westworld
Dolores meanwhile is trying to save the hosts by taking over and breaking out of it all
Finally the last one left to account for is the man in Black. He is supposed to find his way out of the maze which I assume is for him to sacrifice somehow for Dolores to bring a peace
This post was edited on 4/23/18 at 2:41 pm
Posted on 4/23/18 at 2:54 pm to GenesChin
quote:No one is talking about it because it's not true. Arnold is present when Dolores is created (the first host) prior to all of these key moments with the hosts.
So no one is talking about this but Bernard isn't a host version of Arnold, he is Arnold.
Posted on 4/23/18 at 2:54 pm to scrooster
quote:
She also told Ford that the vote against him was unanimous. That would imply that William voted to replace Ford, correct? Unless William is not a voting member of the board and rather just a majority share holder.
William would probably have at least one vote on the board, but it could be by proxy. I could see him voting Ford out just because he hated him.
Posted on 4/23/18 at 2:56 pm to AA77
I don't think he hated Ford at all. He just didn't see him as important to the maze. It was Arnold's maze/game, not his.
This post was edited on 4/23/18 at 4:46 pm
Posted on 4/23/18 at 3:17 pm to ell_13
quote:
Arnold is present when Dolores is created (the first host) prior to all of these key moments with the hosts.
She is the oldest host in service, she is not the oldest host.
Posted on 4/23/18 at 3:22 pm to GenesChin
quote:
She is the oldest host in service, she is not the oldest host.
If Arnold was always a host, then why is he now called Bernard?
Posted on 4/23/18 at 3:24 pm to GenesChin
All this talk and no one has complained that the camera cut away when Charlotte got naked, but we get to see a teeny pecker. 
Posted on 4/23/18 at 3:44 pm to TigerstuckinMS
quote:
If Arnold was always a host, then why is he now called Bernard?
Not sure why a name change proves/disproves anything but Bernard Lowe is an anagram of Arnold Weber
a - 1
b - 1
d - 1
e - 2
l - l
n - 1
o - 1
r - 2
w - 1
Posted on 4/23/18 at 3:51 pm to ell_13
The show will turn into the later seasons of Lost. Just questions after questions without an actual answer to keep viewers involved
Posted on 4/23/18 at 4:33 pm to Ed Osteen
quote:
Lost
You can spell LOST from the letters in Westworld just like Bernard and Arnold!
Posted on 4/23/18 at 4:34 pm to GenesChin
No need to play word games to avoid the point. Even if she’s the “oldest host in service”, she’s still “older” than Bernard. Or is he not “in service”?
Posted on 4/23/18 at 4:37 pm to GenesChin
quote:
Not sure why a name change proves/disproves anything but Bernard Lowe is an anagram of Arnold Weber
It doesn't, I just don't see why Ford would do it.
Posted on 4/23/18 at 4:46 pm to ell_13
quote:
No need to play word games to avoid the point. Even if she’s the “oldest host in service”, she’s still “older” than Bernard. Or is he not “in service”?
Ford's creepy family is not registered as being in service.
I mean it's not like Ford is just going to be all "Yo Delos, just ignore this secret host Bernard as I register him as being in service"
I'm just saying that Ford says all of the following
- Human engineers failed to program emotion correctly
- Ford built Bernard to help program emotions
- Arnold was alive when machines past the Turing Test 2years before the park opened
This post was edited on 4/23/18 at 4:57 pm
Posted on 4/23/18 at 4:50 pm to GenesChin
Arnold made them as a gift to Ford didn’t he? They are described as “first generation hosts” as well. Still not older than Dolores. And still created by Arnold before Ford created Bernard. Which we see that Ford is much older when he does so. Like I said, it’s not even remotely true that the Bernard we see now is Arnold who helped create the park.
ETA: you are playing word games as if that proves your point. Stop.
ETA: you are playing word games as if that proves your point. Stop.
This post was edited on 4/23/18 at 4:52 pm
Posted on 4/23/18 at 5:00 pm to ell_13
quote:
Like I said, it’s not even remotely true that the Bernard we see now is Arnold who helped create the park.
Not exactly what I'm arguing.
If a host is just computer code, that code can be stored for later.
My argument is that Bernard is a version of Arnold, his "build" body may be "new" but his source code is based on a previous version of Arnold's
Hard to know if a rebooted Arnold would be conscious though. With their brains stored locally on a host, Delores shooting Arnold in the head may have damaged the updated "consciousness"
This post was edited on 4/23/18 at 5:04 pm
Posted on 4/23/18 at 5:03 pm to GenesChin
Since you won’t listen to the obvious things we already know, how about this practical argument:
Without Ford, how are we going to get that revelation? How does it even make sense for the plot? They won’t be filming any flashbacks. Hopkins is done. Or are you claiming that this should be obvious to the audience already?
Without Ford, how are we going to get that revelation? How does it even make sense for the plot? They won’t be filming any flashbacks. Hopkins is done. Or are you claiming that this should be obvious to the audience already?
Posted on 4/23/18 at 5:15 pm to ell_13
quote:
Since you won’t listen to the obvious things we already know, how about this practical argument:
Your argument is based on something that does not matter, that Bernards host body is younger than Delores
First, host body age is irrelevant as "rebuilds" have occurred. Maeve had a rebuild to remove the C4 in her spine for example
Second, Bernard could be a version 2.0 based on the original Arnold. Doesn't change whether Arnold was a host or not
quote:
Without Ford, how are we going to get that revelation?
Who says Dolores doesn't know that Arnold was a host?
quote:
How does it even make sense for the plot?
Because it fixed plot inconsistency + explains Arnold's obsession w giving consciousness to the hosts only to try and end it all immediately when it happens
This post was edited on 4/23/18 at 5:26 pm
Posted on 4/23/18 at 5:31 pm to GenesChin
quote:Where’s the proof of that?
Your argument is based on something proven false, that Bernards host body is younger than Delores
The whole Bernard subplot reaches its climax downstairs when Bernard goes back to his first memory. You are trying to say that those first memories weren’t really his first memories? Or that Bernard is Arnold only in the sense that it’s Ford’s second attempt at creating a host that looks like that? Because there’s a serious gap between the Dolores flashbacks to the start of the park and the interviews when we see the age of Ford and when Bernard has his first memories of Ford and he’s much older. In which case Bernard isn’t Arnold at all even if they are both hosts and look the same. It’s not an upgrade; it’s a redo with the same physical features.
ETA: You literally contradict yourself. First: “it’s proven false that Bernard is younger than Dolores” then “even if Bernard is a whole new host” WTF??
quote:Jesus. The “you can’t prove me wrong so I’m right” argument which has no basis in anything and requires a hypothetical.
Who says Dolores doesn't know that Arnold was a host?
quote:Inconsistency? It was completely explained. It’s a classic trope: the mad scientist has the “what have I done” revelation. He certainly didn’t want to “end it all immediately” the moment he realizes what he has in Dolores. He lets it go for a while and eventually decides he can’t put her through the hell of the park.
Because it fixed plot inconsistency + explains Arnold's obsession w giving consciousness to the hosts only to try and end it all immediately when it happens
Not to mention that Arnold being a host does literally nothing you say to absolve that plot inconsistency even if it did exist. As if only a host would come to that conclusion.
This post was edited on 4/23/18 at 5:47 pm
Posted on 4/23/18 at 5:48 pm to GenesChin
quote:Nice edit.
Your argument is based on something that does not matter, that Bernards host body is younger than Delores
Glad I already had it quoted.
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