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re: Westworld S2E1 - Journey into Night
Posted on 4/23/18 at 6:17 pm to ell_13
Posted on 4/23/18 at 6:17 pm to ell_13
quote:
Where’s the proof of that?
I edited to fix this well before you posted. Dolores' original build date isn't really relevant. Bernard's "host mind" can be put in other builds
Also, here is a picture from the trailers of Bernard as an original metal machine build, not the organic matter build
quote:
it’s a redo with the same physical features.
They reference "redo"s all the time calling them a "roll back." In the season finale it is what Bernard accuses Ford of doing repeatedly to strip consciousness from the hosts
Ford openly talks about rolling Bernard back after having "disagreements" . It is like Ford rolls Bernard back from Windows 10 to Windows 8.
quote:
Jesus. The “you can’t prove me wrong so I’m right” argument which has no basis in anything and requires a hypothetical.
Never said it was right, just that Ford isn't required to reveal this like you claimed.
quote:
the mad scientist has the “what have I done” moment. He certainly didn’t want to “end it all immediately” the moment he realizes what he has in Dolores.
Except Dolores' consciousness doesn't appear to happen until after she comes to terms with having killed Arnold and the voice in her head is her own not Arnold's.
quote:
He lets it go for a while and eventually decides he can’t put her through the hell of the park.
Except Arnold explicitly states that Ford can bring back all the hosts. He knows Ford can put Dolores into the park and openly acknowledges
quote:
Not to mention that Arnold being a host does literally nothing you say to absolve that plot inconsistency even if it did exist.
Ford's Bernard timeline doesn't add up. I'm sure there are other ways they can tie those loose ends up, or just ignore them, but Arnold being a host is a possibility
2
Posted on 4/23/18 at 6:19 pm to ell_13
quote:
Nice edit.
Glad I already had it quoted.
I edited it before you even posted, check the time stamp
You accuse me of playing wordgames then criticize me for editing to fix a phrasing mistake. Sounds legit
Posted on 4/23/18 at 6:25 pm to GenesChin
A phrasing mistake? First you said there was proof then you said it wasn’t relevant at all. That’s a little more than an accident.
And all I said was that I’m glad I caught it. I didn’t criticize you for the change. No wonder you struggle with plot theories. Pay attention better.
And all I said was that I’m glad I caught it. I didn’t criticize you for the change. No wonder you struggle with plot theories. Pay attention better.
Posted on 4/23/18 at 6:35 pm to GenesChin
quote:That’s software as in versions of code. It’s not a completely new host.
They reference "redo"s all the time calling them a "roll back." In the season finale it is what Bernard accuses Ford of doing repeatedly to strip consciousness from the hosts
quote:Right. Bernard. Not Arnold.
Ford openly talks about rolling Bernard back after having "disagreements" . It is like Ford rolls Bernard back from Windows 10 to Windows 8
quote:He already knows she’s going to get there.
Except Dolores' consciousness doesn't appear to happen until after she comes to terms with having killed Arnold and the voice in her head is her own not Arnold's
Arnold doesn’t have qualms with the hosts gaining consciousness. His problem is with putting “living” things in a park like that where they’ll be tortured. That’s his hold back. And once he realizes he can’t stop that from happening unless a host kills a human, then that’s the step he takes. We don’t have this entire plot if Arnold is a host. A host killing hosts isn’t news or anything worthy of stopping Westworld even in the early testing phases. Are you saying obsessed Ford wouldn’t reveal that in order to save that place? How does that make sense? Why would he almost let the park fail without the help of someone like William if all he had to do was say, “no worries, this host just killed another host”.
quote:See above. That’s why it’s dumb af to say that Arnold was just a host. Because then it means nothing.
Except Arnold explicitly states that Ford can bring back all the hosts. He knows Ford can put Dolores into the park and openly acknowledges
quote:What doesn’t add up with the timeline? What lose ends regarding Arnold?
Ford's Bernard timeline doesn't add up. I'm sure there are other ways they can tie those loose ends up, or just ignore them, but Arnold being a host is a possibility
Posted on 4/23/18 at 6:46 pm to ell_13
quote:
And all I said was that I’m glad I caught it. I didn’t criticize you for the change. No wonder you struggle with plot theories. Pay attention better.
Ya, I was in the chick fila drive thru and it is easier to proofread on a phone after you submit it. That's why I was able to edit before you even responded.
Fight me.
quote:
A phrasing mistake?
Ya, that's why I fixed it before you posted it because it clearly wasn't what I was trying to say
quote:
First you said there was proof
I meant to say there is no proof that Dolores' build is older than Bernard's. Posted a photo of some 1st Gen BernardBots
quote:
then you said it wasn’t relevant at all.
I'm saying the current BernardBot's build date isn't relevant anyways since a host's computer code can get transferred from one build to the next
This post was edited on 4/23/18 at 6:48 pm
Posted on 4/23/18 at 6:50 pm to GenesChin
It's 2018 and we are still arguing about grammar be and spelling on the internet
Posted on 4/23/18 at 6:52 pm to musick
It wasn’t a grammar or spelling mistake! It was literally two different phrases.
Posted on 4/23/18 at 6:54 pm to ell_13
For someone trying to say "let's not argue on word games" you sure are doing a metric F ton of it
Maybe I'm not picking up all your arguments but they seem to come down to
- Dolores is older than Bernard -> Both 1st gen Benards seem to exist + computer code could have been transferred to a new build
- Dolores is older than 1st Gen hosts -> She is included as one of the original hosts, doesn't mean she is the OG
- Bernard we see now is not the Arnold who built the park -> Partially true, Bernard would be built on a rolled back version of Arnold code
- Bernard is not "in service" -> Ford isn't signing up his secret host as an in service host
- Ford can't reveal this -> Dolores technically could
- Bernard's first memory is not Arnolds -> As expected if Arnold's code got rolled back. I'd also suspect that Arnold had his core processor/memory storage destroyed when Dolores shot him
Maybe I'm not picking up all your arguments but they seem to come down to
- Dolores is older than Bernard -> Both 1st gen Benards seem to exist + computer code could have been transferred to a new build
- Dolores is older than 1st Gen hosts -> She is included as one of the original hosts, doesn't mean she is the OG
- Bernard we see now is not the Arnold who built the park -> Partially true, Bernard would be built on a rolled back version of Arnold code
- Bernard is not "in service" -> Ford isn't signing up his secret host as an in service host
- Ford can't reveal this -> Dolores technically could
- Bernard's first memory is not Arnolds -> As expected if Arnold's code got rolled back. I'd also suspect that Arnold had his core processor/memory storage destroyed when Dolores shot him
This post was edited on 4/23/18 at 6:56 pm
Posted on 4/23/18 at 6:57 pm to ell_13
quote:
It wasn’t a grammar or spelling mistake! It was literally two different phrases.
I mean to say "no proof" not "proven false." and I ended up taking that whole thing out before you even responded.
I didn't trash you for making claims that are in no way supported by evidence
This post was edited on 4/23/18 at 6:59 pm
Posted on 4/23/18 at 7:05 pm to ell_13
quote:
Arnold doesn’t have qualms with the hosts gaining consciousness. His problem is with putting “living” things in a park like that where they’ll be tortured. That’s his hold back. And once he realizes he can’t stop that from happening unless a host kills a human, then that’s the step he takes
Beyond y'all's conversation.
Couldn't it be argued that Ford's death and not Arnold's will be the driving force behind the park being shut down?
Posted on 4/23/18 at 7:10 pm to GenesChin
I made one point about your edit. Just that I caught it. Neither here nor there. The other poster thought it was a grammar or spelling thing as if I was nitpicking. That’s all. But sure... “metric frickton”. 
quote:There is no evidence that Bernard was a first gen. None. Your blurry screenshots from this year’s trailer isn’t a basis for anything.
Dolores is older than Bernard -> Both 1st gen Benards seem to exist + computer code could have been transferred to a new build
quote:The OGs include Fords family, Teddy, the blonde hostess for William... we KNOW Delores is older than them.
Dolores is older than 1st Gen hosts -> She is included as one of the original hosts, doesn't mean she is the OG
quote:No. just that Arnold is human and Bernard was built years later in his image... just as presented. It’s kind of important that Arnold is human. It’s the whole basis of the park losing money and the reason William exists as an owner/anti-hero
Bernard we see now is not the Arnold who built the park -> Partially true, Bernard would be built on a rolled back version of Arnold code
quote:This is what I’m talking about RE: your word game. Idc if “in service” was used or not. It’s an odd thing to key in on. She’s the oldest host there. Period.
Bernard is not "in service" -> Ford isn't signing up his secret host as an in service host
quote:Why? How? Importance? This doesn’t wrap up anything. Arnold being a host doesn’t add anything. I don’t know why you’re so set on it tbh. It removes much of the “kick” from season one and raises even more pointless questions.
Ford can't reveal this -> Dolores technically could
quote:Except the whole point of this show is that the hosts aren’t behaving “as expected”. They’re remembering their beginnings. When Bernard remembered his, it was when Ford made him. He couldn’t go back further because he’s not Arnold, a human. You’re adding an unnecessary layer to a character that doesn’t need one. Period.
Bernard's first memory is not Arnolds -> As expected if Arnold's code got rolled back.
This post was edited on 4/23/18 at 7:20 pm
Posted on 4/23/18 at 7:12 pm to ThatMakesSense
quote:I suggested as much earlier in the thread. That the dinner at the end of season one was Escalante on steroids. As if Arnold was still pulling the strings in some hidden protocol in the hosts.
Couldn't it be argued that Ford's death and not Arnold's will be the driving force behind the park being shut down?
Posted on 4/23/18 at 7:16 pm to GenesChin
quote:I’m supposed to know what you “meant” to say when you don’t even change it to what you meant to say?
I mean to say "no proof" not "proven false." and I ended up taking that whole thing out before you even responded.
Posted on 4/23/18 at 7:39 pm to ell_13
quote:
Idc if “in service” was used or not. It’s an odd thing to key in on. She’s the oldest host there. Period.
She is the oldest host in thr Delos system in operation at the park. That is the only takeaway from the show one can make.
So an argument built on the idea that "Arnold built Dolores" to disprove Arnold being a host makes no sense. Nothing says Dolores came before ArnoBot
quote:
Your blurry screenshots from this year’s trailer isn’t a basis for anything.
So let's just conveniently ignore the trailer shot of a storage locker full of Bernards including one that has a 1st gen build (metal not organic)
Even if you ignore that, it still doesn't mean Bernard's source code/"host personality" isn't older than his physical body
quote:
The OGs include Fords family, Teddy, the blonde hostess for William... we KNOW Delores is older than them.
In the show, Dolores is grouped as one of the first generation host in the system. Her being old doesn't really mean anything. She isn't announced as the first host at any point
You were mentioning tropes earlier
Bernard/Arnold is the Adam to Dolores' eve. She was the one that unlocked Arnold's consciousness and introduced him to suffering
quote:
No. just that Arnold is human and Bernard was built years later in his image... just as presented.
Why should we accept it as presented? Especially on a show where nothing is actually as presented.
Arnold may very well be a human, but to blindly accept the story doesn't make sense.
quote:
It’s kind of important that Arnold is human. It’s the whole basis of the park losing money and the reason William exists as an owner/anti-hero
Where is the link between Arnold being human and the park needing money? How does Arnold dying jeopardize the park's financial health?
I know Ford makes a comment along those lines, but he in no way justifies it and neither does anyone else.
Now I'm spitballing but it would make even more sense for Arnold to be a host and Ford securing funding on AI innovation. If a conscious Arnold corrupts his backups + kills himself Ford doesn't have the advancements in consciousness from Arnold
quote:
You’re adding an unnecessary layer to a character that doesn’t need one. Period.
So you have defaulted to
"I don't like this theory but can't disprove it. Let's just say "period" as if that proves my point"
You sound legit
This post was edited on 4/23/18 at 7:44 pm
Posted on 4/23/18 at 7:45 pm to GenesChin
quote:There’s no evidence to suggest Arnold was a host, But that didn’t stop this conversation did it?
There is nothing to suggest that Arnold wasn't build before Dolores.
quote:It’s not my theory. I don’t have to disprove anything.
I don't like this theory but can't disprove it.
You have to support it with... nothing? You claim it solves inconsistencies... that doesn’t exist. Your proof is... idk tbh.
I feel like you found this theory on Reddit and latched on without really thinking it through.
Posted on 4/23/18 at 7:47 pm to GenesChin
quote:Uh. What? The whole Logan/William storyline was based on the park hemorrhaging money and Logan references the accident. That’s what made it a “cheap” investment. It’s pretty central to Williams plot.
Where is the link between Arnold being human and the park needing money? How does Arnold dying jeopardize the park's financial health?
Posted on 4/23/18 at 7:48 pm to GenesChin
quote:
Now I'm spitballing but it would make even more sense for Arnold to be a host and Ford securing funding on AI innovation. If a conscious Arnold corrupts his backups + kills himself Ford doesn't have the advancements in consciousness from Arnold
Posted on 4/23/18 at 7:52 pm to ell_13
quote:
Logan references the accident. That’s what made it a “cheap” investment.
Except none of that hinges on Arnold being human.
Posted on 4/23/18 at 7:55 pm to ell_13
Yall two stop. I have real questions.
Now that we know for sure there are other parks. Could there be a Dolores at these other parks as well? Will other worlds hosts be acting in similar fashion to WestWorld?
Now that we know for sure there are other parks. Could there be a Dolores at these other parks as well? Will other worlds hosts be acting in similar fashion to WestWorld?
Posted on 4/23/18 at 7:55 pm to ell_13
quote:
You claim it solves inconsistencies... that doesn’t exist
So Ford claiming that Bernard was the key to helping him capture human emotions isn't an inconsistency? Otherwise, how do you explain William at the beginning years of the park being completely sucked into the hosts human qualities/emotions
So Arnold was just chill with having Bernard hang around in the early days as they we're programming hosts?
Or are you saying Ford lied about Bernards contributions for fun? That it was Arnold who pulled it off and Ford is just lying to Bernard for no reason
Or do you not see the exact parallel between Arnold's story of Ford + team of engineers + Ford's partner in the early days of the park
And Bernard being Ford's partner that he created to help solve the problem a team of human engineers couldn't
This post was edited on 4/23/18 at 7:57 pm
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