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re: Why does TLJ actually surprise anyone? This is what Star Wars always does.
Posted on 12/18/17 at 7:03 pm to OMLandshark
Posted on 12/18/17 at 7:03 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
just can’t come up with any logical explanation in my head how Snoke got into power where he is.
So my only question to you is WHY does it matter so much to you? I loved SW as a kid and I love it now, but it was a story about Luke and then about Luke and his evil father.
This trilogy doesn’t need a well fleshed out Snoke if we have a well fleshed-out Kylo and Rey. It’s their movie. And Adam Driver is killing it.
There’s one thing about this movie that I can’t figure out if it’s genius or if it’s bad writing, but I can never figure out what Kylo’s plans are in the moment. Is it because Driver has a great range is emotional expressions in his face or is it because the writers make him redeemable in this act and then blood-lusted in the next act?
This post was edited on 12/18/17 at 7:05 pm
2
Posted on 12/18/17 at 7:10 pm to DelU249
quote:
But a good example of Johnson using preconceived notions and established Star Wars scenarios from the OT for cheap twists instead of setting up his own genuine surprises. It’s like he thought it would be surprising because the character hasn’t gotten any screen time, which is the reason you shouldn’t do it but at the same time copies the Vader saving Luke from the emperor
What killing Snoke did for me was establish in my mind that Kylo Ren is way more ambitious than Darth Vader. Vader was a pupil. Snoke made fun of Kylo’s childish mask and Kylo fricked the old man over and took charge.
Ambitions mother F’er. Which is why I was so confused that he lied to Hux about who killed Snoke. He sounded like a kid trying to hide something bad he did from his parents. He’s running from consequences in one moment and then sport-force-choking Hux as a hobbie the next minute.
That’s bad writing imo.
This post was edited on 12/18/17 at 7:11 pm
Posted on 12/18/17 at 7:11 pm to LesMiles BFF
quote:
That’s bad writing imo.
Yup.
It would've been better if Hux ran in and said what happened, and Kylo said I killed him. I am now supreme leader. Hux says your just a little shite and Kylo force chokes him to death for insolence.
Posted on 12/18/17 at 7:11 pm to LesMiles BFF
It doesn’t matter, but he’s made a bigger part of the story than the emperor, given less screen time than the emperor and killed for a cheap thrill not in the service of kylos arc
Characters make choices and a change happens...check mark given here, but Kylo reverts to temper tantrum Kylo. Kind of thought he’d exude more emotional maturity in command like he was ready
Why did Kylo kill him though? Kind of a relevant part to understanding his arc. Vader killed The emperor to save his son. Kylo killed snoke beeeecause ???
Ambition, angry at him, has feelings for rey? I liked it, but it was kind of superficial same with the ensuing light saber battle because I don’t know who they are. They should have been “the knights of ren” and whether they pledged loyalty to Kylo Ren or tried to avenge snoke would be interesting
Characters make choices and a change happens...check mark given here, but Kylo reverts to temper tantrum Kylo. Kind of thought he’d exude more emotional maturity in command like he was ready
Why did Kylo kill him though? Kind of a relevant part to understanding his arc. Vader killed The emperor to save his son. Kylo killed snoke beeeecause ???
Ambition, angry at him, has feelings for rey? I liked it, but it was kind of superficial same with the ensuing light saber battle because I don’t know who they are. They should have been “the knights of ren” and whether they pledged loyalty to Kylo Ren or tried to avenge snoke would be interesting
This post was edited on 12/18/17 at 7:15 pm
Posted on 12/18/17 at 7:13 pm to LesMiles BFF
quote:
Kylo Ren is way more ambitious
It does and again, I liked it and his whole “you work for me” attitude with hux. It’s just I don’t know if that was his motive
He killed his father so he’d kill anyone even snoke, but why did he do it?
This post was edited on 12/18/17 at 7:14 pm
Posted on 12/18/17 at 7:14 pm to DelU249
quote:
Kylo killed snoke beeeecause ???
Snoke tortured him and manipulated him most of his life and then laughed in his face about what a pathetic little shite he was?
Posted on 12/18/17 at 7:15 pm to LesMiles BFF
quote:
So my only question to you is WHY does it matter so much to you? I loved SW as a kid and I love it now, but it was a story about Luke and then about Luke and his evil father.
This trilogy doesn’t need a well fleshed out Snoke if we have a well fleshed-out Kylo and Rey. It’s their movie. And Adam Driver is killing it.
There’s one thing about this movie that I can’t figure out if it’s genius or if it’s bad writing, but I can never figure out what Kylo’s plans are in the moment. Is it because Driver has a great range is emotional expressions in his face or is it because the writers make him redeemable in this act and then blood-lusted in the next act?
Well the problem is Rian Johnson does constant “frick Yous” to what was established in TFA. Like a cliffhanger was that Kylo Ren was returning to Snoke to train? Nothing. Johnson gave so little of a shite that 3PO had a gold arm in this, when he had a red one in TFA, and this theoretically starts right where it left off.
Just anything that Abrams set up for him he just didn’t care. Like imagine if TFA actually ended where Luke tosses the lightsaber aside? Everyone would be pissed. The only thing he was going to acknowledge are the very base of the characters. Didn’t give a shite besides that.
This post was edited on 12/18/17 at 7:16 pm
Posted on 12/18/17 at 7:16 pm to Breesus
And? Emperor did that to Vader and he was cool with it
By the way I liked that scene because Kylo learned something about snoke and so did we...just needed more between them I thought
All I know about snoke now that he’s dead is that he’s evil, rich and a poor man’s emperor by detailing to Kylo how he manipulates him.
By the way I liked that scene because Kylo learned something about snoke and so did we...just needed more between them I thought
All I know about snoke now that he’s dead is that he’s evil, rich and a poor man’s emperor by detailing to Kylo how he manipulates him.
This post was edited on 12/18/17 at 7:17 pm
Posted on 12/18/17 at 7:17 pm to DelU249
quote:
Emperor did that to Vader and he was cool with it
No he wasn’t, he was just terrified of the Emperor. Vader is openly plotting as early as Empire to kill the Emperor and using Luke to do it.
Posted on 12/18/17 at 7:17 pm to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
If anything Rey should have been in the movie more and not sidelined for the finale.
Agreed.
Which is why the response of "HERP YOU MUST WANT MORE MAGA RACIST BIGOT" responses are stupid.
The Rey/Ren story arc was phenomenally good. The abomination that was the Finn/Rose arc is a cinematic shite show for the sake of checking current cultural boxes.
Posted on 12/18/17 at 7:18 pm to DelU249
quote:
And? Emperor did that to Vader and he was cool with it
Vader did eventually kill the Emperor.
But also they're not the same characters. I actually enjoyed Snoke's death, but we absolutely needed more training and more backstory before it happened.
Posted on 12/18/17 at 7:19 pm to Breesus
To save his son not his ego
I don’t think this is a problem with the movie at all and one of the more enjoyable parts
I like to think Kylo was using snoke all along but that doesn’t seem to be the case. But the movie was so bad I mostly think about how much I hate it
I don’t think this is a problem with the movie at all and one of the more enjoyable parts
I like to think Kylo was using snoke all along but that doesn’t seem to be the case. But the movie was so bad I mostly think about how much I hate it
This post was edited on 12/18/17 at 7:20 pm
Posted on 12/18/17 at 7:20 pm to DelU249
quote:
He killed his father so he’d kill anyone even snoke, but why did he do it?
Snoke’s corpse isn’t even cold when you get the answer. He wants to rule the galaxy with Rey. Snoke is in the way of that.
I guess In that way Kylo is more of an action man than Vader. Kill first THEN ask if the other person wants to partner up. Vader was whispering to Luke to join him against the Emporer in Cloud City but didn’t ever go through with the overthrow until his son turned him.
Kylo has a different path to navigate. I disliked the lack of Rey near the end as well.
This post was edited on 12/18/17 at 7:31 pm
Posted on 12/18/17 at 7:21 pm to DelU249
quote:
To save his son not his ego
Actually thinking it through, he was plotting against the Emperor as early as Episode III. It’s just Vader has very obvious weaknesses that the Emperor can use to kill him as well instantly, which is why I don’t think Vader wants to be anywhere near the Emperor and use Luke to kill him.
Posted on 12/18/17 at 7:22 pm to LesMiles BFF
(no message)
This post was edited on 5/25/23 at 11:10 pm
Posted on 12/18/17 at 7:25 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
Like imagine if TFA actually ended where Luke tosses the lightsaber aside?
If you ask me, this is the single most insulting thing to happen in The Last Jedi and I felt it was directed to me as a fan.
To me Johnson had Luke Skywalker take this object that fans of the films hold as almost a sacred object and toss it over his should as if to say “frick your reverence” for this stuff.
He had a hero of my childhood toss it aside. NOT tell Rey to keep it and leave. NOT to have Luke destroy it himself.
He tossed that saber aside and it felt like Luke kind of tossed my reverence for him and the OT aside.
Posted on 12/18/17 at 7:26 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
Vader is openly plotting as early as Empire to kill the Emperor and using Luke to do it.
Again, I think Jedi is weak. The neutering of Darth Vader is a big reason why
Posted on 12/18/17 at 7:28 pm to LesMiles BFF
It would have been fine if he toyed with it/looked at it and then dropped it on the ground
The jokey throwing it over the shoulder like Lloyd Christmas along with the sudden stop in the music took me out of the scene and ruined a bit of cool mystery from the end of TFA
The jokey throwing it over the shoulder like Lloyd Christmas along with the sudden stop in the music took me out of the scene and ruined a bit of cool mystery from the end of TFA
Posted on 12/18/17 at 7:30 pm to DelU249
Well it misfired horribly. Not a single person laughed in the theater I was at.
Posted on 12/18/17 at 7:32 pm to LesMiles BFF
(no message)
This post was edited on 5/27/23 at 8:21 pm
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