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Message
re: Alcoholism: Why Is It A Disease?
Posted on 6/15/18 at 12:48 pm to EarlyCuyler3
Posted on 6/15/18 at 12:48 pm to EarlyCuyler3
quote:
I guess you'll be the 1st guy in the world to try that plan. Let me know how it goes.
Yeah, this guy should start his own treatment facility, he would make millions...
1
Posted on 6/15/18 at 12:49 pm to RogerTheShrubber
What do you mean normal? Any evidence of this or no?
Posted on 6/15/18 at 12:49 pm to gumbo2176
quote:
but that doesn't explain how small kids get fatal diseases like cancer, leukemia, brain tumors etc.
The child doesn't choose things to help bring on the disease but some people do. Look at the rates of leukemia by populations near some chemical plants or refinery. Check out Chalmette's rate.
Posted on 6/15/18 at 12:50 pm to Triple Bogey
You do know you can become not physically addicted after you have been huh?
Posted on 6/15/18 at 12:52 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. It takes years, sometimes decades to become normal if you ever do.
I guess he's never heard of "wet brain"
Alcoholism can absolutely have permanently damaging mental effects. Not just physical effects like liver disease.
Posted on 6/15/18 at 12:52 pm to RogerTheShrubber
How if all you losers think it’s this horribly incurable disease?
Posted on 6/15/18 at 12:52 pm to Triple Bogey
Your dad died of a disease it sounds like. And he was also an alcoholic.
Posted on 6/15/18 at 12:54 pm to tigerdude3232
quote:
What do you mean normal? Any evidence of this or no?
Recovered alcoholics do not return to a normal healthy mental state
Google "wet brain" and do some reading on the matter
God forbid your dumb arse would actually learn something
Posted on 6/15/18 at 12:55 pm to tigerdude3232
quote:
How if all you losers think it’s this horribly incurable disease?
What if you spoke English?
Posted on 6/15/18 at 1:00 pm to tigerdude3232
quote:
What do you mean normal? Any evidence of this or no?
I doubt you can comprehend any of this, but knock yourself out.
LINK
Posted on 6/15/18 at 1:25 pm to Ace Midnight
I find myself more often questioning the way that our modern medicine and psychiatric care defines disease.
The following book changed some of my takes on addiction as a disease... Biology of Desire.
Many of our modern psychiatric and behavior based medications were not originally created to fix the problem they are used to solve today, but they were side effects of other drug trials that these drug companies were able to show had secondary benefits. So someone who was on a drug trial for epilepsy or cancer also reported that they are feeling better about life after taking a certain drug. Basically we are reverse engineering some modern diseases based on the behavior impacts of drugs.
Modern life is pretty chaotic, full of broken relationships, too tied to sedentary screen watching, too focused on acquiring things and not relationships and it leaves people empty and feeling like they don't measure up to the world's standards. Many of us have relegated our spiritual well being as a historic fancy. Of course stimulants in all forms are going to be used in excess to fill the void. These addictions never happen without real emotional and relational issues in a person's life. It doesn't mean that some people are more pre-disposed to certain behaviors, but that doesn't make it a disease.
The following book changed some of my takes on addiction as a disease... Biology of Desire.
Many of our modern psychiatric and behavior based medications were not originally created to fix the problem they are used to solve today, but they were side effects of other drug trials that these drug companies were able to show had secondary benefits. So someone who was on a drug trial for epilepsy or cancer also reported that they are feeling better about life after taking a certain drug. Basically we are reverse engineering some modern diseases based on the behavior impacts of drugs.
Modern life is pretty chaotic, full of broken relationships, too tied to sedentary screen watching, too focused on acquiring things and not relationships and it leaves people empty and feeling like they don't measure up to the world's standards. Many of us have relegated our spiritual well being as a historic fancy. Of course stimulants in all forms are going to be used in excess to fill the void. These addictions never happen without real emotional and relational issues in a person's life. It doesn't mean that some people are more pre-disposed to certain behaviors, but that doesn't make it a disease.
Posted on 6/15/18 at 1:38 pm to tigerdude3232
quote:
If I locked you in a room for 7 days you wouldn’t be able to drink. You would lose all the side effects except desire. At that point, unless you are telling me desire is a disease, you no longer have symptoms and side effects and don’t have a disease....at that point you’re just a pos
Minimizing an alcoholics urge to drink as "desire" is absolutely ludicrous and tells me you have no idea what you're talking about and shouldn't be taken seriously on the subject.
You have "desire" to eat cheeseburgers. You have "desire" to fornicate hot women. You have "desire" to cheer for football teams you love.
You have an unrelenting, gut-wrenching, psychotic obsession with wanting to have a drink all day every day, no matter what else you're doing or what else you're trying to focus on. It is a feeling that alcoholics fight every minute of every day and requires incredible inner strength to hold off. It is not in the same stratosphere as a "desire".
Posted on 6/15/18 at 1:44 pm to CivilTiger83
quote:
These addictions never happen without real emotional and relational issues in a person's life.
I'm pretty sure I can agree with this.
quote:
It doesn't mean that some people are more pre-disposed to certain behaviors, but that doesn't make it a disease.
But this I don't.
It's extremely complicated. I think an awful lot of it is due to industrialization. Before people didn't really have time to do anything else. They were trying to survive. Even that being the case, there has always been alcohol issues. It's even in the Bible.
Posted on 6/15/18 at 1:52 pm to TheCaterpillar
quote:
You have an unrelenting, gut-wrenching, psychotic obsession with wanting to have a drink all day every day, no matter what else you're doing or what else you're trying to focus on. It is a feeling that alcoholics fight every minute of every day and requires incredible inner strength to hold off. It is not in the same stratosphere as a "desire".
And yet a certain percentage of alcoholics and drug addicts stop and never seem to struggle with it again. If it was purely biological on the order of cancer or epilepsy, that would not happen. It doesn't mean we should tell alcoholics you just need to buck up and do a better job, but maybe we don't need to institutionalize all addicts or give them a life sentence.
Posted on 6/15/18 at 1:54 pm to tigerdude3232
quote:
We could take them out back......
Eat shite and die. In the very least sterilize yourself.
Posted on 6/15/18 at 1:54 pm to CivilTiger83
quote:
never seem to struggle with it again
What???
Posted on 6/15/18 at 1:55 pm to CivilTiger83
quote:
And yet a certain percentage of alcoholics and drug addicts stop and never seem to struggle with it again.
Just because they aren't using/drinking again doesn't mean they aren't constantly struggling with it.
I know several alcoholics and several people that had drug addictions that have been clean for years now and have told me as such. Its why they count every day they are sober as an achievement.
Posted on 6/15/18 at 1:55 pm to tigerdude3232
quote:
If I locked you in a room for 7 days you wouldn’t be able to drink. You would lose all the side effects except desire. At that point, unless you are telling me desire is a disease, you no longer have symptoms and side effects and don’t have a disease....at that point you’re just a pos
Posted on 6/15/18 at 2:04 pm to EarlyCuyler3
quote:
It's extremely complicated. I think an awful lot of it is due to industrialization. Before people didn't really have time to do anything else. They were trying to survive. Even that being the case, there has always been alcohol issues. It's even in the Bible.
Absolutely... that still doesn't make it a purely biological disease. A dominant behavioral struggle, that may be beyond the persons willpower in their current environment... absolutely.
Our brains change when we interact with the world and we put substances in our body (good and bad). If I show you the negative effects of those substances and behaviors on my brain after years it does not make it a disease. Habits and the neural pathways that form from those behaviors are powerful actors that can lock us into all kinds of behaviors. Porn addiction is much in the same mold. In fact, you will find lots of current or previous alcoholics who are porn addicts.
There are more neuroscientists coming around to the idea of addiction not being a disease, so it is not some fringe idea.
Posted on 6/15/18 at 2:31 pm to CivilTiger83
There's never going to be a clear cut answer in my opinion. It's too complicated. The disease concepts works when applied properly and that's good enough for me.
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