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Message
re: Civil War time travel question/debate
Posted on 3/31/14 at 3:11 pm to Darth_Vader
Posted on 3/31/14 at 3:11 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
There's fuel tanks on both sides of the diver's compartment there. Did it hit one of those? Like I said and and you can see in that picture, the armor at that point is really not thick at all. I'd love to see the pictures and hear more details of this test. I was a tanker from the late 80's through the late 90's.
DV,
If I remember correctly, now we're going back about 10 years now since I last saw the photo (it's deep in my archived training files on CD), the tank had indeed caught on fire as the paint looked scorched. The hull was cock-eyed in the fighting position and barrel tranversed over.
The erupting fire I presume was from the fuel tanks getting hit (I just talked to my boss who's a tanker to confirm this).
Now, I saw the pictures as I was a BN S2 going through MDMP training with the folks from Leavenworth. Specifically, the conversation and photos were part of me discussing with my OC regarding the JMEMS document (unclass) and EXACTLY how many rounds it would take to "destroy" an Abrams.
The pictures had three Abrams in hull-defilade fighting positions in a platoon BP and all three were dug in. I don't remember the minute specifics of the tests other than "using a crapload" of artillery to knock them out.
1
Posted on 3/31/14 at 3:12 pm to Darth_Vader
10 teams at 10 SEALS per team could wreak havoc upon the command of the Union forces. I think too many people here are taking it as 100 SEALS lining up head to head against 500,000 men. I don't think they would choose to operate in such a fashion. They would do what SEALS do, and they would be quite effective at it in that era. They wouldn't wrestle the snake, they'd cut off its head.
Posted on 3/31/14 at 3:13 pm to LasVegasTiger
quote:
I have enjoyed this today, thank you.
I have as well.
Love me some history discussion, even this "what if" type stuff. I know other's have mentioned it, but I want to once again highly recommend Harry Turtledove. His book "Guns of the South" is a mix of science fiction and history. But the series he begins with "How Few Remain" is purely "alternative history" in that all it supposed happens to change the outcome of the Civil War is one extremely minor incident that actually took place that had it gone differently, most likely would have allowed the South to win the war. From there this series go all the way to the end of WWII..... to call it fascinating is an understatement. I am a voracious consumer of history books but rarely get interested in fiction. Turtledove interests me though.
Posted on 3/31/14 at 3:15 pm to SthGADawg
quote:
re: Civil War time travel question/debate (Posted on 3/31/14 at 2:55 pm to Jobu93) quote: Jobu93 this guy knows whats up!!
Thank you, sir!
There are other valid points throughout too.
Posted on 3/31/14 at 3:18 pm to NWarty
quote:
DV,
If I remember correctly, now we're going back about 10 years now since I last saw the photo (it's deep in my archived training files on CD), the tank had indeed caught on fire as the paint looked scorched. The hull was cock-eyed in the fighting position and barrel tranversed over.
The erupting fire I presume was from the fuel tanks getting hit (I just talked to my boss who's a tanker to confirm this).
Now, I saw the pictures as I was a BN S2 going through MDMP training with the folks from Leavenworth. Specifically, the conversation and photos were part of me discussing with my OC regarding the JMEMS document (unclass) and EXACTLY how many rounds it would take to "destroy" an Abrams.
The pictures had three Abrams in hull-defilade fighting positions in a platoon BP and all three were dug in. I don't remember the minute specifics of the tests other than "using a crapload" of artillery to knock them out.
The Abrams was (is) as tough son of a bitch. I went through the First Gulf War in the driver's seat of one and remember vividly feeling, hearing, and later seeing on our turret the marks where Iraqi rounds had hit us with no effect. If we'd have bee in any other tank I'd have died in February 1991.
Posted on 3/31/14 at 3:20 pm to 911Moto
quote:
10 teams at 10 SEALS per team could wreak havoc upon the command of the Union forces. I think too many people here are taking it as 100 SEALS lining up head to head against 500,000 men. I don't think they would choose to operate in such a fashion. They would do what SEALS do, and they would be quite effective at it in that era. They wouldn't wrestle the snake, they'd cut off its head.
U have no doubt they'd mess shite up royally. but they'd not have been able to single-handily win the war for either side.
But eventually they would be hunted down and killed. Numbers. It's nothing against the SEALS, it's just a matter of numbers.
Posted on 3/31/14 at 3:20 pm to LasVegasTiger
So 100 Navy Seals versus
2.1 million strong or 1 million strong.
Some of you seem to think Navy Seals are 20 foot tall and bullet proof.
The Seals would lose this fight very quickly.
2.1 million strong or 1 million strong.
Some of you seem to think Navy Seals are 20 foot tall and bullet proof.
The Seals would lose this fight very quickly.
Posted on 3/31/14 at 3:22 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
The Abrams was (is) as tough son of a bitch. I went through the First Gulf War in the driver's seat of one and remember vividly feeling, hearing, and later seeing on our turret the marks where Iraqi rounds had hit us with no effect. If we'd have bee in any other tank I'd have died in February 1991.
Last page I talked about my old BTRY CDR telling us about the tank with a sabot sticking out the front.
He was with 2nd ACR during Desert Storm
Posted on 3/31/14 at 3:26 pm to NWarty
quote:
Last page I talked about my old BTRY CDR telling us about the tank with a sabot sticking out the front.
He was with 2nd ACR during Desert Storm
They were not far off our flank. I was 1st AD.
Posted on 3/31/14 at 3:26 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
have no doubt they'd mess shite up royally. but they'd not have been able to single-handily win the war for either side. But eventually they would be hunted down and killed. Numbers. It's nothing against the SEALS, it's just a matter of numbers.
But applied at the right time, you could change the war. First Bull Run the SEALS run roughshod in DC killing the Abe and his cabinet, any Senators and C&C in Dept of War.
Not only does the North lose the battle as they already did, but you have indeed severed the head of the snake. Many papers were not fond of this war at that time, and if you made such a heavy one time blow, perhaps the North lets the South divorce peaceably from the union.
Posted on 3/31/14 at 3:27 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
, but I want to once again highly recommend Harry Turtledove. His book "Guns of the South" is a mix of science fiction and history. But the series he begins with "How Few Remain" is purely "alternative history" in that all it supposed happens to change the outcome of the Civil War is one extremely minor incident that actually took place that had it gone differently, most likely would have allowed the South to win the war. From there this series go all the way to the end of WWII..... to call it fascinating is an understatement.
Already ordered them off Amazon!
Posted on 3/31/14 at 3:27 pm to 911Moto
quote:
10 teams at 10 SEALS per team could wreak havoc upon the command of the Union forces.
They'd be fighting for the Union, dumbass.
Posted on 3/31/14 at 3:27 pm to LasVegasTiger
Hopefully you made use of the used book feature.
Posted on 3/31/14 at 3:28 pm to LSUTigers1986
quote:In this hypo, they aren't fighting FOR either side, dumbass.
They'd be fighting for the Union, dumbass.
Posted on 3/31/14 at 3:29 pm to boom roasted
quote:
Hopefully you made use of the used book feature.
Oh yeah, I don't think I have ever bought a new book off Amazon.
Posted on 3/31/14 at 3:30 pm to boom roasted
Not everyone is a racist, drunk, KKK descendant.
Posted on 3/31/14 at 3:30 pm to LasVegasTiger
quote:
Already ordered them off Amazon!
Hope you enjoy. Don't bother siting down to get in a short read. If you're like me you'll crack one open and not put it down until your eye's won't focus any longer.
Posted on 3/31/14 at 3:32 pm to Jobu93
quote:
But applied at the right time, you could change the war. First Bull Run the SEALS run roughshod in DC killing the Abe and his cabinet, any Senators and C&C in Dept of War.
Not only does the North lose the battle as they already did, but you have indeed severed the head of the snake. Many papers were not fond of this war at that time, and if you made such a heavy one time blow, perhaps the North lets the South divorce peaceably from the union.
Solid point. Couple the defeat of the Union army and the havoc of having the government effectively neutralized, the war ends then and there. We're living under the Stars & Bars today.
Posted on 3/31/14 at 3:32 pm to LSUTigers1986
quote:I don't think you're following along...
Not everyone is a racist, drunk, KKK descendant.
Posted on 3/31/14 at 3:35 pm to Darth_Vader
I can bring hell when playing Axis and Allies.
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