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re: Explain why drugs and prostitution should be illegal
Posted on 3/6/15 at 1:40 pm to Darth_Vader
Posted on 3/6/15 at 1:40 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
I think that like most things in life, there is a middle ground here. Should drugs and prostitution be illegal? No. Should they be just wide open with no limits though? No.
Drugs like pot should be legal but well regulated (age limits, zoned for certain areas where it can be sold in stores, etc.) But on the other hand, other more "hard" drugs like heroin, crack, meth, etc. should remain illegal. They're just too destructive and society should do everything it can to limit their distribution and use.
As for prostitution, it also should be legal but regulated. Those who operate this sort of business should be required to to be licensed and meet set public health guidelines. There should also be age and zoning limits on these businesses as well.
ETA: And finally, it should be up to each individual state on what is or is not legal when it comes to drugs and/or prostitution. If the people of a state vote to legalize it, so be it. If they vote such measures down, so be it.
I agree with all of that except the quoted portion.
quote:
society should do everything it can to limit their distribution and use.
Sure, we limit its sale and distribution, but if someone buys drugs for themselves to put in their body, that should not result in ridiculous taxpayer funded prison sentences.
Tax weed, tax prostitution, and use the money earned plus the money saved from not enforcing to go after distribution/manufacturing of hard drugs, treatment centers, and education for children.
This post was edited on 3/6/15 at 1:41 pm
1
Posted on 3/6/15 at 1:40 pm to lsu480
quote:
In my opinion things should only be a crime if they hurt other people, so simply driving intoxicated should not be a crime. That being said I think if you hurt someone while driving under the influence you should get between 2-25 years depending on their injuries, for example 2 years would be for a very minor injury like a sprained writs and 25 would be if you paralyze them with other injuries being in between, and life in prison if you kill someone.
The whole purpose behind drunk driving laws is to discourage people from driving dunk and thus saving people's lives. I'd much rather stop a drunk before he or she killed someone than after.
Posted on 3/6/15 at 1:41 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
ETA: And finally, it should be up to each individual state on what is or is not legal when it comes to drugs and/or prostitution. If the people of a state vote to legalize it, so be it. If they vote such measures down, so be it.
It already is that way
Posted on 3/6/15 at 1:43 pm to kingbob
quote:
Do I believe we need to reform our current DUI laws? Absolutely. I think that the breathalyzers have far too wide a margin of error and that the limit is arbitrarily set too low. I also take offense with the concept of police agents using a crime as a revenue source as it only encourages cops to enforce laws the wrong ways for the wrong reasons. They focus on earning money rather than on public safety.
Agreed. There should be a sliding scale legal limit for your weight and age IMO. I'm 200 lbs I can drink a few beers after work and not feel the slightest thing and be over the .08 limit.
My 100 lb wife drinks 3 beers, she is trashed (lol) but her BAC isn't that much higher than mine.
Posted on 3/6/15 at 1:45 pm to TheCaterpillar
quote:
Sure, we limit its sale and distribution, but if someone buys drugs for themselves to put in their body, that should not result in ridiculous taxpayer funded prison sentences.
I see what you're saying but on the other hand, you've got to look at what the effects of these hard drugs have on a community. Meth is a great case in point. There's a great documentary about it's rise in popularity in north Alabama titled "Meth Mountain" and the devastating effects it's had there.
Posted on 3/6/15 at 1:48 pm to lsu480
quote:
ETA: And finally, it should be up to each individual state on what is or is not legal when it comes to drugs and/or prostitution. If the people of a state vote to legalize it, so be it. If they vote such measures down, so be it.
It already is that way
Actually, not entirely. Pot is still very much illegal on the Federal level. Right now we've got a stated Federal policy to not go after pot and enforce the pot laws currently on the book. The laws are still there though. All it will take to shut down what's going on in Colorado and other places that have passed similar measures is for a president to be elected who wants those laws enforced.
Posted on 3/6/15 at 1:49 pm to magildachunks
I truly do not believe this topic has been discussed, ad nauseum, before. Thanks for posting. 
Posted on 3/6/15 at 1:52 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
Actually, not entirely. Pot is still very much illegal on the Federal level. Right now we've got a stated Federal policy to not go after pot and enforce the pot laws currently on the book. The laws are still there though. All it will take to shut down what's going on in Colorado and other places that have passed similar measures is for a president to be elected who wants those laws enforced.
Any president doing that would be commiting career suicide and even if they tried to do it in their second term they would do so much damage to their party it would never be allowed
Posted on 3/6/15 at 1:56 pm to lsu480
quote:
Any president doing that would be commiting career suicide and even if they tried to do it in their second term they would do so much damage to their party it would never be allowed
But the point is, a future president can still do it. Yes it would be unpopular with certain people, but with others it would be a very popular move. There's still a sizable population of people who oppose it being legal.
Posted on 3/6/15 at 1:56 pm to kingbob
quote:
Notice that they are still doing all of those things despite drugs being illegal.
So since people continue to engage in illegal behavior, let's just legalize it. Sounds like a super idea.
Listen, if we had different treatment options available I'd be all for putting true users (not dealers) on a "treatment track," instead of a "punishment track." And honestly, I do all I can to keep simple users out of prison. I pretty much exhaust all the treatment options available before asking the judge to send them to prison. They go to local outpatient treatment. They go to 90 day lock down facilities with follow up. They go to programs that are 6 months to a year lock down treatment with an additional 6 or so months after that in residential halfway houses.
But the recidivism rate is so high. Despite a ton of treatment, most of these people keep using. And they keep committing other offenses in order to get drugs. So then what? More and more treatment and more and more failure? It is so hard to break free from the addictions. We need whatever deterrents we can have to keep people from even trying them one time. And if making them illegal keeps even just 10% of the population from using them, then it's worth it.
ALso, if you were to read summaries of my cases you would stop with the "they're not harming anyone but themselves."
This post was edited on 3/6/15 at 2:02 pm
Posted on 3/6/15 at 2:02 pm to johnjay
quote:
But the recidivism rate is so high. Despite a ton of treatment, most of these people keep using. And they keep committing other offenses in order to get drugs.
This is one of the main reasons legalizing "hard" drugs would do nothing to reduce drug crime. Think about it, let's say they make meth or crack legal. You can go down to the local liquor/drug store and buy all you want. Well, you've still got to have the money to buy it. and how many meth or crack junkies are going to be able to hold down a job that will both support them and support their drug habit? Those addicts are still going to have to resort to whatever they can, usually crime, to get the money to support their habit.
Posted on 3/6/15 at 2:03 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
I see what you're saying but on the other hand, you've got to look at what the effects of these hard drugs have on a community. Meth is a great case in point. There's a great documentary about it's rise in popularity in north Alabama titled "Meth Mountain" and the devastating effects it's had there.
If anything, Meth Mountain is a great example of the current system failing. Help those addicts get treatment, increase education for the youth, increase enforcement on manufacturing/distribution, and keep the prison free of sick people that need medical help instead of incarceration.
Posted on 3/6/15 at 2:04 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
This is one of the main reasons legalizing "hard" drugs would do nothing to reduce drug crime.
Was just about to edit to say this. Simply making it more readily available doesn't mean it's free. It's more expensive to buy a 1/4 ounce of weed on Colorado than from your dealer in Texas.
Posted on 3/6/15 at 2:06 pm to johnjay
quote:
Was just about to edit to say this. Simply making it more readily available doesn't mean it's free. It's more expensive to buy a 1/4 ounce of weed on Colorado than from your dealer in Texas.
I think we should separate weed out of this conversation. People aren't resorting to lives of crime and burglary to support their weed habit
This post was edited on 3/6/15 at 2:13 pm
Posted on 3/6/15 at 2:08 pm to TheCaterpillar
quote:
If anything, Meth Mountain is a great example of the current system failing. Help those addicts get treatment, increase education for the youth, increase enforcement on manufacturing/distribution, and keep the prison free of sick people that need medical help instead of incarceration.
I agree with trying help the addicts instead of just throwing them into prison. But while you're doing that, remove the source of supply from the community so you don't keep making new addicts all the time. No, it's not a perfect system. But to be honest, there is no perfect answer when it comes to things like meth or crack. The best we can hope for is to fight it at the source, choke off the supply as much as possible.
Posted on 3/6/15 at 2:09 pm to TheCaterpillar
Most people in the country agree weed should be legal. Its just a matter of time.
I think most people, if they were being truly honest, would say prostitution should be legal and regulated as well.
Hard drugs are a different story. I don't think the manufacture and distribution should be legal. In fact, I think the penalties for those crimes should be more severe.
However, I don't think being an addict and/or being busted buying/using personal amounts of hard drugs should result in prison sentences. Those people need help, not incarceration and their life ruined.
I think most people, if they were being truly honest, would say prostitution should be legal and regulated as well.
Hard drugs are a different story. I don't think the manufacture and distribution should be legal. In fact, I think the penalties for those crimes should be more severe.
However, I don't think being an addict and/or being busted buying/using personal amounts of hard drugs should result in prison sentences. Those people need help, not incarceration and their life ruined.
Posted on 3/6/15 at 2:10 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
This is one of the main reasons legalizing "hard" drugs would do nothing to reduce drug crime. Think about it, let's say they make meth or crack legal. You can go down to the local liquor/drug store and buy all you want. Well, you've still got to have the money to buy it. and how many meth or crack junkies are going to be able to hold down a job that will both support them and support their drug habit? Those addicts are still going to have to resort to whatever they can, usually crime, to get the money to support their habit.
Because they can't get jobs. Once you have a conviction on your record, it's really really difficult to get a job to pay for one's habit. They go to prison and when they get out, crime is literally the ONLY way for them to make a living.
The issue is criminal AGAIN!
As long as they are only harming themselves, it's legal. The second they harm someone else, they should be held accountable for the act of harming that other person, not because of the substance that increased the likelihood of them doing so.
Watching Les Miles's offense makes me angry. When I am angry, I am more prone to behave in a violent manner when confronted. That makes me more dangerous to people than when I am not watching Les Miles's offense. Clearly, we should ban Les Miles from running an offense in the interest of public health.
You don't blame what increases the likelihood, you blame the individual and you prosecute the action. You don't blame night time for murders. You blame murderers. You don't blame slutty outfits for rape, you blame rapists. You don't blame drugs for theft, you blame thieves.
Posted on 3/6/15 at 2:10 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
This is one of the main reasons legalizing "hard" drugs would do nothing to reduce drug crime. Think about it, let's say they make meth or crack legal. You can go down to the local liquor/drug store and buy all you want. Well, you've still got to have the money to buy it. and how many meth or crack junkies are going to be able to hold down a job that will both support them and support their drug habit? Those addicts are still going to have to resort to whatever they can, usually crime, to get the money to support their habit.
Legalization will eventually drop the price and make a life of crime to support a habit less likely.
ALL drugs need to be legalized. Hell, we're having a heroin "epidemic" because our government saw fit to take action over the pill "epidemic."
The root source of our high prison population and subsequent social ill is not drug use or abuse, it's the illegal nature of the trade and associated crime and supply issue.
We've proven making things like drugs illegal doesn't work. It's futile, expensive and does nothing but expand our prison industrial complex and create social dark holes.
This post was edited on 3/6/15 at 2:11 pm
Posted on 3/6/15 at 2:10 pm to TheCaterpillar
quote:
I think we should separate weed out of this conversation. People are resorting to lives of crime and burglary to support their weed habit
I wasn't really including weed in that. I was obviously using it as an example to show that legalizing it makes it more expensive.
Posted on 3/6/15 at 2:11 pm to Jcorye1
quote:
I'll never understand how something can be illegal to sell that is perfectly legal to give away for free.
All you got to do is film it, then it becomes legal again
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