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re: nevermind
Posted on 4/3/14 at 5:08 pm to Ross
Posted on 4/3/14 at 5:08 pm to Ross
quote:Starting to gain a foothold...
In laymen's terms "things that are ordered will always tend toward disorder".
If you had a hot sandwich in which the molecules inside that sandwich are vibrating pretty quickly, the sandwich will tend to cool until coming to an equilibrium with the room surrounding it, meaning that this concentrated thermal energy has spread out to its surroundings, becoming more "disordered".
I took it as: things with energy will continue to expend that energy until there is no energy left.
1
Posted on 4/3/14 at 5:09 pm to The Baker
aliens
Posted on 4/3/14 at 5:10 pm to boom roasted
I've read it several times. Asimov was brilliant
This post was edited on 4/3/14 at 5:11 pm
Posted on 4/3/14 at 5:11 pm to genro
quote:Not one single doubt about it. Just got the Foundation series in the mail today. Can't wait to start. Have to make it through Connecticut Yankee in KA's Court first.
Asimov was brilliant
This post was edited on 4/3/14 at 5:12 pm
Posted on 4/3/14 at 5:15 pm to The Baker
I think to think we are alone among the Quadrilllion stars out there is just silly.
Posted on 4/3/14 at 5:16 pm to boom roasted
Not quite. I'm sure you've heard "energy cannot be created or destroyed", the First Law of Thermodynamics. We know energy can change into a variety of different forms (and we know cool facts like matter is simply a form of energy, and can be transformed between a form of energy with mass or without mass, and we know how much of this energy from that famous equation E = mc^2)
Anyway, entropy pretty much just means there is a certain degree of usable energy in a system. Picture a ball at the top of a hill about to roll down. You know the ball has a certain amount of potential energy sitting at the top of the hill, but as it rolls down the hill much of this energy is converted to kinetic energy. As the ball reaches the bottom of the hill, it will lose this kinetic energy to friction, which causes most of the energy in the ball to be lost to the heating of the ground and air around it. At this point, we can't really use much of the energy that we started with, so we say there isn't much usable energy left. The idea of entropy tells is that this is the tendency of all things in a closed system, to use up the amount of usable energy (sometimes called exergy) in a system until everything is at equilibrium. The mathematics behind entropy allow us to actually find out how much usable energy there is in a system based on how much entropy the system generates.
The energy is never really destroyed, it's just that as humans, anything we ever do is predicated on there being an energy gradient. We need there to be something with a lot of energy and something with less energy so that the energy can move from the first place to the second and do work for us in the process. If we are in a closed system, there is only so much work we can extract before everything is at equilibrium and no more work can be done.
That's why, if the universe is a closed system, heat death is inevitable. All the concentrated energy in the universe will eventually come to equilibrium and no more work can be done. It'll take an absurdly long time for black holes to radiate away all of their energy, but we know it will happen.
Anyway, entropy pretty much just means there is a certain degree of usable energy in a system. Picture a ball at the top of a hill about to roll down. You know the ball has a certain amount of potential energy sitting at the top of the hill, but as it rolls down the hill much of this energy is converted to kinetic energy. As the ball reaches the bottom of the hill, it will lose this kinetic energy to friction, which causes most of the energy in the ball to be lost to the heating of the ground and air around it. At this point, we can't really use much of the energy that we started with, so we say there isn't much usable energy left. The idea of entropy tells is that this is the tendency of all things in a closed system, to use up the amount of usable energy (sometimes called exergy) in a system until everything is at equilibrium. The mathematics behind entropy allow us to actually find out how much usable energy there is in a system based on how much entropy the system generates.
The energy is never really destroyed, it's just that as humans, anything we ever do is predicated on there being an energy gradient. We need there to be something with a lot of energy and something with less energy so that the energy can move from the first place to the second and do work for us in the process. If we are in a closed system, there is only so much work we can extract before everything is at equilibrium and no more work can be done.
That's why, if the universe is a closed system, heat death is inevitable. All the concentrated energy in the universe will eventually come to equilibrium and no more work can be done. It'll take an absurdly long time for black holes to radiate away all of their energy, but we know it will happen.
This post was edited on 4/3/14 at 5:43 pm
Posted on 4/3/14 at 5:18 pm to genro
(no message)
This post was edited on 1/11/21 at 1:30 am
Posted on 4/3/14 at 5:19 pm to Ross
Our universe is unstable. At some point it will reach equilibrium, right? But it wont stay that way. The universe loves chaos.
Posted on 4/3/14 at 5:21 pm to boom roasted
Posted on 4/3/14 at 5:24 pm to J Murdah
If the universe reached equilibrium, and for some reason decided to stop expanding and start contracting, then yeah you can expect some more exciting things to happen.
I don't know why the universe continues to expand, I don't think anyone really does. You can kind of grasp that after the origins of the universe everything is shooting out quickly in all directions, but you can't really conceptualize what is on the other side of the border between our universe and whatever else there is. I don't even know if there is a border, or just an infinite plane of spacetime where energy and matter hasn't reached it quite yet.
I don't know why the universe continues to expand, I don't think anyone really does. You can kind of grasp that after the origins of the universe everything is shooting out quickly in all directions, but you can't really conceptualize what is on the other side of the border between our universe and whatever else there is. I don't even know if there is a border, or just an infinite plane of spacetime where energy and matter hasn't reached it quite yet.
Posted on 4/3/14 at 5:24 pm to The Baker
Posted on 4/3/14 at 5:26 pm to Ross
I think it's a big if to assume that the laws of thermodynamics apply under all conditions, and another big if to assume that the universe is a closed system. Our understanding of physics during the Big Bang does not hold up when you get into the singularity-type masses and the forces that that generates. Not to mention we have no idea whatsoever on what caused or generated the Big Bang.
Posted on 4/3/14 at 5:26 pm to Napoleon
(no message)
This post was edited on 1/11/21 at 1:30 am
Posted on 4/3/14 at 5:30 pm to J Murdah
(no message)
This post was edited on 1/11/21 at 1:30 am
Posted on 4/3/14 at 5:30 pm to gorillacoco
Right the laws of physics only apply to what we have observed. There is still so much to learn, its very exciting.
Posted on 4/3/14 at 5:31 pm to gorillacoco
For the universe to not be considered a closed system, you'd need something outside of the universe to be pumping some form of energy into it.
Not saying that doesn't exist, just that there is no evidence for it.
And yeah, I hear you about some issues matching up quantum field theory, quantum mechanics, and relativistic mechanics. Humans know a lot, but there is still a lot left to learn about how the universe functions. All we can do is take in observations, use them to develop theories, make sure the theories match up with future observations, and adjust accordingly.
But to your point, the Second Law of Thermodynamics is a statistical certainty with a mathematical proof. The First Law of Thermodynamics, however, yeah, we don't know what causes it, so I'll give that one to you. If you could show an instance of energy truly being created or destroyed you'd never have to work another day in your life though.
Not saying that doesn't exist, just that there is no evidence for it.
And yeah, I hear you about some issues matching up quantum field theory, quantum mechanics, and relativistic mechanics. Humans know a lot, but there is still a lot left to learn about how the universe functions. All we can do is take in observations, use them to develop theories, make sure the theories match up with future observations, and adjust accordingly.
But to your point, the Second Law of Thermodynamics is a statistical certainty with a mathematical proof. The First Law of Thermodynamics, however, yeah, we don't know what causes it, so I'll give that one to you. If you could show an instance of energy truly being created or destroyed you'd never have to work another day in your life though.
Posted on 4/3/14 at 5:32 pm to gorillacoco
(no message)
This post was edited on 1/11/21 at 1:30 am
Posted on 4/3/14 at 5:34 pm to Ross
quote:thats what gets me. Am I to believe every bit of matter that exists in our universe was at some point packed into something smaller than a grain of sand? Then of course, boom...
If you could show an instance of energy truly being created or destroyed you'd never have to work another day in your life though.
Posted on 4/3/14 at 5:35 pm to Ross
(no message)
This post was edited on 1/11/21 at 1:30 am
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