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re: Official Thread: Missing Malaysia Airlines Flight 370
Posted on 3/9/14 at 11:19 am to When in Rome
Posted on 3/9/14 at 11:19 am to When in Rome
quote:
If you're interested in that Air France flight 447 crash, there was an awesome NOVA documentary on it that I watched on Netflix a while ago...if it's still there, I would highly recommend it.
Not to get too off topic, but I always curious about the AirFrance Concorde crash from 2000. I do remember AF447, really awful too.
1
Posted on 3/9/14 at 11:32 am to SpartyGator
Concorde crash sucked up part of a shredded tire from a previous departure on takeoff. It sliced through the fuel lines and ignited the engines just after they got off the ground.
This has to be some sort of instant, catastrophic failure IMO. Even in the most intense circumstances, the crew would still issue some type of distress signal.
This has to be some sort of instant, catastrophic failure IMO. Even in the most intense circumstances, the crew would still issue some type of distress signal.
Posted on 3/9/14 at 11:32 am to Patrick_Bateman
It disappeared because it crashed. It dropped off radar because it crashed. No communication because it crashed. See a trend here?
And the black boxes do have a ping transmitter, but only certain vessels can pick them up. Shouldn't be a problem though because US ships are assisting.
And the black boxes do have a ping transmitter, but only certain vessels can pick them up. Shouldn't be a problem though because US ships are assisting.
This post was edited on 3/9/14 at 11:33 am
Posted on 3/9/14 at 11:33 am to Patrick_Bateman
quote:
I just don't understand how the frick an airplane disappears. It's the 21st fricking century! I mean, sure, the ocean is a big place. But are there really still planes without GPS, tracking devices, emergency transmitters, anything?! Are there still planes that can lose ALL communication with anyone anywhere? Planes that are neither tracked nor communicated with?! . . . It's a crazy thought that I could be on board a plane, no one would have any idea where I was, and no one on the plane could have any communication whatsoever with the outside world.
quote:
One of the questions I’ve been asked repeatedly since word emerged that a Malaysian Airlines Boeing BA -0.25% 777 had disappeared, is how can a modern airliner flying at 35,000 feet suddenly lose all contact? First, there needs to be an understanding of the type of contact that an airliner in flight typically has. Airline crews communicate with air traffic control both by verbal instructions over radios and through automatic transmissions from various aircraft systems, such as a transponder which relays information about the flight (e.g. altitude) to ground radar stations. The transponder information is then displayed on an air traffic controller’s screen as an alpha-numeric readout.
Crews also have the ability to communicate with their airline through discrete radio channels. There is usually at least one other back up communication system that allows communication between the ground stations and the flight crew. Other aircraft systems commonly used by many airlines also communicate with commercial services that monitor other parts of the aircraft, such as engines, and report that data back to the airline. This data is then used to monitor and improve aircraft system performance.
For all communication to suddenly cease without a distress signal usually indicates a catastrophic failure of the aircraft , not allowing time for the crew to communicate either by radio or through the aircraft transponder. Modern airliners have multiple radios for voice communication and the transponder can be used to send signals that indicate different problems with the aircraft (for example a discrete code for hijacking). A complete electrical failure is extremely unlikely because of redundancies in the system, especially the ram air turbine which uses the power of the wind generated by the aircraft’s motion in flight to generate electricity which would power critical navigation and communication systems, as well as flight controls. But even if the aircraft had a complete electrical failure, the aircraft could have continued to fly. If the aircraft was out of radar range when a failure occurred – but able to fly – it would eventually fly to an area with radar coverage and be picked up by air traffic control radar.
It is too early to speculate on what could have caused a catastrophic failure to the aircraft, if that is in fact what occurred.
Posted on 3/9/14 at 11:35 am to DFWAggie09
quote:
Concorde crash sucked up part of a shredded tire from a previous departure on takeoff. It sliced through the fuel lines and ignited the engines just after they got off the ground.
Thanks, I'll have to read more on it later. I just remember it really well as a kid.
quote:
This has to be some sort of instant, catastrophic failure IMO. Even in the most intense circumstances, the crew would still issue some type of distress signal.
Yep, probably my biggest concern. No signal at all. This thing just is awful, for sure.
Posted on 3/9/14 at 11:37 am to Golfer
quote:
That wouldn't explain losing radar contact with them, though.
Unless they were in between radar stations.
Posted on 3/9/14 at 11:39 am to DFWAggie09
quote:
Concorde crash sucked up part of a shredded tire from a previous departure on takeoff. It sliced through the fuel lines and ignited the engines just after they got off the ground.
I thought the Concorde's tires shredded when it ran over a piece of metal debris on the runway from another aircraft?
I remember seeing several Concordes at Charles De Gaulle airport just after they were cleared to fly again. Really cool looking airplanes.
This post was edited on 3/9/14 at 11:49 am
Posted on 3/9/14 at 11:40 am to Patrick_Bateman
quote:
None of which would explain how the plane disappeared. No radar detection, no emergency transmitter, no tracking device, no GPS, no communication, nothing.
As I understand it the plane did not have a deployable flight recorder. So if it hit the water or blew up suddenly while airborne there wouldn't be anything to communicate with.
Google DFIRS.
Posted on 3/9/14 at 11:46 am to redstick13
quote:
I thought the Concord's tires shredded when it ran over a piece of metal debris on the runway from another aircraft?
You're right, I had forgotten it was actually part of the Concorde's own tire.
Posted on 3/9/14 at 11:47 am to redstick13
That's what's nuts about this --- they have satellite phones and radio frequencies capable of going the distance. It's not as if commercial jet pilots are reliant on a CB or something like a trucker. They were never out of communications range. The people in charge of air traffic also don't need radar to know where a plane is - the planes have transponders. Also, the captain has to radio in location, heading, speed, and fuel at frequent designated waypoints along with his ETA at the next waypoint.
I typed all that to prove my thesis that those in charge pretty much know where the plane would have been. Yes, the ocean is pretty large, but they have multiple ways of narrowing that waaaaay down. The fact that they haven't found a debris field there yet is pretty damn startling. There's lots of stuff in a plane that'll float pretty quickly. You also can't just "pencil" dive in - the freaking wings would shear off and leave tons of debris.
I typed all that to prove my thesis that those in charge pretty much know where the plane would have been. Yes, the ocean is pretty large, but they have multiple ways of narrowing that waaaaay down. The fact that they haven't found a debris field there yet is pretty damn startling. There's lots of stuff in a plane that'll float pretty quickly. You also can't just "pencil" dive in - the freaking wings would shear off and leave tons of debris.
This post was edited on 3/9/14 at 11:49 am
Posted on 3/9/14 at 11:47 am to DFWAggie09
quote:
Concorde crash sucked up part of a shredded tire from a previous departure on takeoff. It sliced through the fuel lines and ignited the engines just after they got off the ground.
Not exactly accurate. The Concorde ran over a metal strip on the runway from another aircraft. This metal strip cut the Concordes tire which shredded and ruptured the fuel tank.
Posted on 3/9/14 at 11:47 am to redstick13
quote:
I'll look for it. I've read about several crashes. Don't know why but it interests me.
one a few..
Show on Flight 447
Posted on 3/9/14 at 11:50 am to SaltyMcKracker
quote:Makes sense. I can see how communication could have been lost, if some sort of sudden/instantaneous malfunction or explosion occurred.
No communication because it crashed.
quote:OK, so where was the plane immediately prior to "dropping off radar"? What were it's last known coordinates, speed, heading, etc.? If it only disappeared upon crashing, it should be very easy to locate the crash site. Simply go to the location where the plane was last located before crashing.
It disappeared because it crashed. It dropped off radar because it crashed.
Regarding the ping transmitter, shouldn't it be sending off a signal indicating its location? And if so, why has no one detected that signal? If I were looking for a lost plane, the first thing I would do is look for that ping transmitter signal.
I have very little knowledge of planes and how they're tracked. I'm just trying to use common sense. Dismissing my question by saying, "It disappeared because it crashed," doesn't explain anything.
This post was edited on 3/9/14 at 11:52 am
Posted on 3/9/14 at 11:50 am to Cooter Davenport
They knew where AF 447 went down but it still took them two years to find it.
ETA - The total loss of communications seems to indicate a catastrophic failure.
ETA - The total loss of communications seems to indicate a catastrophic failure.
This post was edited on 3/9/14 at 11:54 am
Posted on 3/9/14 at 11:52 am to redstick13
quote:Thanks for the reasonable response.
One of the questions I’ve been asked repeatedly since . . .
This post was edited on 3/9/14 at 11:54 am
Posted on 3/9/14 at 11:54 am to Cooter Davenport
The distance between waypoints is a massive amount of ocean to cover looking for a speck.
If you think the plane crashing doesn't add up, what do you think happened then?
quote:
The fact they haven't found a debris field yet is pretty damn startling
If you think the plane crashing doesn't add up, what do you think happened then?
Posted on 3/9/14 at 11:56 am to Patrick_Bateman
Posted on 3/9/14 at 11:58 am to TheIndulger
quote:
If you think the plane crashing doesn't add up, what do you think happened then?
I don't know, that's why I'm fascinated by this.
Posted on 3/9/14 at 12:02 pm to Cooter Davenport
this has probably been brought up, but could cabin pressure have failed and the pilots were left unconscious?
Posted on 3/9/14 at 12:03 pm to fightingtigers98
quote:
this has probably been brought up, but could cabin pressure have failed and the pilots were left unconscious?
Not likely. It almost had to be a catastrophic and sudden event.
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