Domain: tiger-web1.srvr.media3.us Oklahoma lawmakers OK bill criminalizing performing abortion | Page 5 | O-T Lounge
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re: Oklahoma lawmakers OK bill criminalizing performing abortion

Posted on 5/19/16 at 2:02 pm to
Posted by PrivatePublic
Member since Nov 2012
17848 posts
Posted on 5/19/16 at 2:02 pm to
quote:

The states don't have the right to infringe on liberties protected by the federal constitution.


Which clause covers abortion?
Posted by PuntBamaPunt
Member since Nov 2010
10070 posts
Posted on 5/19/16 at 2:03 pm to
Abortion should be encouraged, have stopped and looked around lately?
Posted by slackster
Houston
Member since Mar 2009
91492 posts
Posted on 5/19/16 at 2:03 pm to
quote:

I love how evangelical conservatards base their understanding of life for pro-choice/abortion arguments on science, and then go on to deny the existence of evolution and claim that the Earth is 3,000 years old because the Bible tells them so despite all scientific evidence to the contrary.


Is that what is happening in this thread, because I think you're making this up.

Defend your position with something other than "hurr durr" or give up.
Posted by AUveritas
Member since Aug 2013
3602 posts
Posted on 5/19/16 at 2:05 pm to
You can believe
quote:

Deciding what is good, bad, or moral for someone else makes you an a-hole by default. Mind your own business.


Or you can believe
quote:

It does not involve or harm anyone else, so why would you care?


If you believe both, you're nothing but a hypocrite. The standard that "it does not involve or harm anyone else" is you deciding "what is good, bad or moral for someone else".
Posted by slackster
Houston
Member since Mar 2009
91492 posts
Posted on 5/19/16 at 2:07 pm to
quote:

require tremendous advanced medical efforts to keep the baby alive.


Walk into a NICU and unplug a baby from a ventilator and let's see what happens to you.

Posted by slackster
Houston
Member since Mar 2009
91492 posts
Posted on 5/19/16 at 2:09 pm to
quote:

It's absurd people think a microscopic zygote should have human rights. Once it develops slightly into something I see the argument, but come on.


To be fair, most people have no clue their pregnant until 4+ weeks, so in the context of the abortion debate, the "ball of cells" is a bit hyperbolic.
Posted by Cruiserhog
Little Rock
Member since Apr 2008
10460 posts
Posted on 5/19/16 at 2:11 pm to
the legislator that authored the bill said life begins at conception so I used that as relevant to this topic

in addition Abortion is reprehensible to me but no one has the right to tell a woman what she can do with her body...no one.
Posted by Belvedere
San Francisco
Member since Nov 2015
374 posts
Posted on 5/19/16 at 2:11 pm to
quote:

Which clause covers abortion?



The due process clauses of the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments.
Posted by TheCaterpillar
Member since Jan 2004
76774 posts
Posted on 5/19/16 at 2:11 pm to
quote:


To be fair, most people have no clue their pregnant until 4+ weeks, so in the context of the abortion debate, the "ball of cells" is a bit hyperbolic.


Fair, but A LOT of pro lifers think protection of the unborn starts at conception of a zygote.

To me, that's on a crazy level of absurd.
Posted by ULSU
Tasmania
Member since Jan 2014
3931 posts
Posted on 5/19/16 at 2:12 pm to
I wasn't using that as an argument. I actually think 20+ weeks is too late. Mother should have made her decision by then, and there is a definite argument about viability. You're talking 5 months into the pregnancy.
Posted by Belvedere
San Francisco
Member since Nov 2015
374 posts
Posted on 5/19/16 at 2:12 pm to
quote:

To be fair, most people have no clue their pregnant until 4+ weeks, so in the context of the abortion debate, the "ball of cells" is a bit hyperbolic


Is that what is happening in this thread? The argument was based on the claim that human life begins at conception. Defend your claim with something other than a non sequitur or give up.
This post was edited on 5/19/16 at 2:13 pm
Posted by AUveritas
Member since Aug 2013
3602 posts
Posted on 5/19/16 at 2:14 pm to
quote:

Fair, but A LOT of pro lifers think protection of the unborn starts at conception of a zygote.

To me, that's on a crazy level of absurd.


The simple truth is inarguable. There is no way, scientifically or otherwise, to determine when "life' begins. Everyone will ultimately fall back to some arbitrary standard. If we are truly a civilized people, the moral choice would be to err on the side of caution and assume it begins at conception.
Posted by slackster
Houston
Member since Mar 2009
91492 posts
Posted on 5/19/16 at 2:15 pm to
quote:

A LOT of pro lifers think protection of the unborn starts at conception of a zygote.


I do too, and I think my stance is pretty practical. If you let nature take its course, the only way that zygote won't turn into a baby 40 weeks later is if an outside party interferes. I've got no problem if someone thinks that is asinine, but that is my belief.
Posted by saintsfan1977
Arkansas, from Cajun country
Member since Jun 2010
10195 posts
Posted on 5/19/16 at 2:15 pm to
Alot of good has come from abortions. Vaccines being one. Keep it legal. If life begins at conception then it's murder to dump your sperm down the drain or toilet.
Posted by Barf
EBR
Member since Feb 2015
3727 posts
Posted on 5/19/16 at 2:15 pm to
quote:

The next post after this will be the one that solves the abortion debate once and for all:



Zeal is the biggest problem in this debate. Very few people approach the debate with the understanding that abortion must be legal for a variety of reasons while simultaneously accepting the fact that aborting a fetus at 36 weeks should be cause for concern.

I think both sides have a little bit of truth to them but neither sides seems to want to compromise.
Posted by TheCaterpillar
Member since Jan 2004
76774 posts
Posted on 5/19/16 at 2:18 pm to
quote:

If life begins at conception then it's murder to dump your sperm down the drain or toilet.


Think about that for a second...
Posted by slackster
Houston
Member since Mar 2009
91492 posts
Posted on 5/19/16 at 2:18 pm to
quote:

If life begins at conception then it's murder to dump your sperm down the drain or toilet.


I'm not sure if you understand what conception is.
Posted by stlslick
St.Louis,Mo
Member since Nov 2012
14794 posts
Posted on 5/19/16 at 2:20 pm to
uh, there is that little roe vs wade dealio
Posted by UpToPar
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2008
22930 posts
Posted on 5/19/16 at 2:21 pm to
quote:

This is one of the main reasons why I personally could not do IVF. If I am personally firmly against abortion, how is this that much different? How can I justify to myself it's ok for one and not the other?


And that's exactly my point. I'm not arguing one way or the other, but it's clearly not as crystal clear as the "life starts at conception" people make it out to be. I'm willing to be quite a few pro life couples have used IVF and have had embryos destroyed as a result without thinking twice.
Posted by ULSU
Tasmania
Member since Jan 2014
3931 posts
Posted on 5/19/16 at 2:22 pm to
quote:

If you let nature take its course, the only way that zygote won't turn into a baby 40 weeks later is if an outside party interferes


Lol, not necessarily
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