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re: WWII buffs: let's talk about Germany's biggest strategic blunder
Posted on 8/20/14 at 10:59 am to SportsGuyNOLA
Posted on 8/20/14 at 10:59 am to SportsGuyNOLA
quote:
Totally disagree with you on the Spain stuff.
They had fought a horrible, bloody civil war, that had just ended when WWII began.
The damage done to Spain in that war took two generations to reapair, as well as the insfrastructure damage nationwide.
At no point from 1939-45 were they able to be a major player in WWWII, although I know they did send some volunteers to help the German effort on the Russian front, but it was negligible.
You're 100% correct. They were in no position to tip the scales in German's favor. They would have been an even heavier albatross around the neck of Germany than were the Italians.
1
Posted on 8/20/14 at 11:01 am to Spaceman Spiff
quote:
But don't forget that their planes, at the time, outclassed anything in the sky. The 109 was, and remained, one of the premier fighters of the war.
They won the air war in WWI - to no avail. Fighters were only really effective against other fighters - air superiority would have helped in striking against the Royal Navy - but they were little help in reducing industrial targets - that's why he had to lean on the V-weapon program to do any sort of psychological damage to Britain - because he didn't have Flying Fortresses, Liberators, Lancasters, etc.
The He 177 came very late, and with a payload of under 16,000 pounds (only about 13,000 or so, internally) - it was a twin-engine solution to a 4-engine problem.
This post was edited on 8/20/14 at 11:02 am
Posted on 8/20/14 at 11:03 am to Jim Rockford
another big blunder was letting the british escape from dunkirk.
Posted on 8/20/14 at 11:06 am to Jim Rockford
quote:
Germany's biggest strategic blunder
Bombing Pearl Harbor.
This post was edited on 8/20/14 at 11:07 am
Posted on 8/20/14 at 11:08 am to heartbreakTiger
Huge. That was a huge blunder. Also not doing anything right after it and giving the Brits time to regroup.
Posted on 8/20/14 at 11:08 am to Jim Rockford
Hilter not listening to Rommel when he requested fortifications on the Normandy beach. He instead kept them back to protect his own interests. I wonder what would have happened if we failed to breach Normandy. I mean, we had the biggest invasion fleet in a god awful weather. Losing this battle would be a major blow to the Allied war effort.
Thank god we had the Midterrian and Africa battlegrounds to train our really GREEN armies. This was our first time in history that we really incorporated Air, ground, and navy forces to attack enemy front. If we went in Europe without this experience, we would have got our asses handed to us by the German veterans serving up there.
Thank god we had the Midterrian and Africa battlegrounds to train our really GREEN armies. This was our first time in history that we really incorporated Air, ground, and navy forces to attack enemy front. If we went in Europe without this experience, we would have got our asses handed to us by the German veterans serving up there.
Posted on 8/20/14 at 11:14 am to Beer Genius
quote:
Hilter not listening to Rommel when he requested fortifications on the Normandy beach. He instead kept them back to protect his own interests. I wonder what would have happened if we failed to breach Normandy. I mean, we had the biggest invasion fleet in a god awful weather. Losing this battle would be a major blow to the Allied war effort.
The only effect that would have had is that the war would have gone on longer and all of Europe would be communist when it was over. As soon as the Germans went on the defensive on the Eastern Front, they were doomed.
Posted on 8/20/14 at 11:18 am to Darth_Vader
Good to see you back, Darth. 
Posted on 8/20/14 at 11:20 am to MountainTiger
German already knew that they would be in a long war with Russia. The Russia was actually starting to let up because they were in severe drought and they lost so many men on the front line. If it wasn't for the Allied victory at Normandy, we would have seen different outcome.
Not defending the Normandy Border has to be on the list of the biggest blunders that Hitler had. After that initial invasion, Patton and his tanks were on a hot line to Germany. They was only stopped by gas and oil.
Not defending the Normandy Border has to be on the list of the biggest blunders that Hitler had. After that initial invasion, Patton and his tanks were on a hot line to Germany. They was only stopped by gas and oil.
Posted on 8/20/14 at 11:22 am to MountainTiger
Like I said earlier, they were forced into Russia by their need of oil and resources. Would have worked if Hitler would have listened to his generals.
Posted on 8/20/14 at 11:24 am to Beer Genius
Yep. I think Russia was a matter of time. Too much land to conquer and hold.
Could they have repulsed the D-Day invasion? Most likely, but I think it would have taken a lot more than they had in reserve.
Could they have repulsed the D-Day invasion? Most likely, but I think it would have taken a lot more than they had in reserve.
Posted on 8/20/14 at 11:25 am to GREENHEAD22
quote:
Like I said earlier, they were forced into Russia by their need of oil and resources. Would have worked if Hitler would have listened to his generals.
This. But, wasn't this the Afrika Korps' goal, too?
Posted on 8/20/14 at 11:30 am to Spaceman Spiff
quote:
Good to see you back, Darth.
Thanks. Busy day here so I'm in and out.
Posted on 8/20/14 at 11:33 am to Spaceman Spiff
quote:
This. But, wasn't this the Afrika Korps' goal, too?
Really it was there to save the Italian's asses in Libya. The most the Afrika Corps could have realistically hoped to achieved would be to seize all of Egypt and cut off the British supply lines to the Far East via the Suez Canal.
Posted on 8/20/14 at 11:36 am to Darth_Vader
Let's say all Spain contributed to the Axis was taking Gibralter and choking off the Eastern end of the Med.
Could Britain have mounted the devastating Taranto attack?
Could Britain have retained Malta, which hindered Axis re supply efforts to N Africa?
In turn, without Gibralter and Malta, could Britain have effectively re supplied their African armies?
War may have taken a much different turn*.
*Biggest blunder was attacking Russia without reaching a peace/subduing the UK
Could Britain have mounted the devastating Taranto attack?
Could Britain have retained Malta, which hindered Axis re supply efforts to N Africa?
In turn, without Gibralter and Malta, could Britain have effectively re supplied their African armies?
War may have taken a much different turn*.
*Biggest blunder was attacking Russia without reaching a peace/subduing the UK
Posted on 8/20/14 at 11:37 am to Beer Genius
quote:
German already knew that they would be in a long war with Russia.
They knew that only after they failed to take Russia in the first year (due to starting a month late as Darth said). Once they lost the initiative, it was all over.
Posted on 8/20/14 at 11:42 am to SoFla Tideroller
I think it's possible Spain could have perhaps taken Gibraltar. I doubt they could have held it though. Even if they take control of the western entrance to the Med, the Brits still held the Suez Canal. In addition to this they had the resources in Egypt to more than likely retake Gibraltar in short order.
Posted on 8/20/14 at 11:45 am to Champagne
quote:
Through much of 1941 before Hitler declared war in December, the USA was not only providing economic and military aid to the UK and the Soviet Union, but was also waging naval war at sea against German naval vessels. In no way shape or manner could US activities during that time be accurately said to be "neutral."
This won't be a popular thing to say in here but it's completely true. Not to mention a tremendous amount of anti-German rhetoric and propaganda coming out if FDR's administration. If you were a German at the time, it sure appeared to be an inevitability that the US was soon to directly join the war, just as they did in WWI.
It still strikes me as a blunder from Hitler to preempt American intervention because Roosevelt still faced resistance from many in Congress. The advantage in declaring against the US and being able to engage their shipping convoys did not outweigh the risks of holding off and hoping domestic political affairs in the US kept Roosevelt from direct US intervention.
Posted on 8/20/14 at 11:45 am to MountainTiger
quote:
. Once they lost the initiative, it was all over.
Exactly. The Germans knew that the only way to defeat the Soviets was to knock them out before they could bring to bear their full resources. And the Germans came damn near to pulling it off.
Posted on 8/20/14 at 11:45 am to Darth_Vader
quote:
I think it's possible Spain could have perhaps taken Gibraltar. I doubt they could have held it though. Even if they take control of the western entrance to the Med, the Brits still held the Suez Canal. In addition to this they had the resources in Egypt to more than likely retake Gibraltar in short order.
What he said. Spain did what was best for them because they lacked enough to even be relevant.
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