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re: Close down the US military facility in Israel
Posted on 10/20/19 at 10:25 pm to troyt37
Posted on 10/20/19 at 10:25 pm to troyt37
quote:
Nazi naval power spear. Without the British fleet to worry about, it becomes quite a different story in the Atlantic, doesn’t it?
Nazi naval power aside from the u-boat menace. Um... nope.
Sure is amazing we were able to launch an actual transoceanic campaign in the face of such an immense german navy. /sarcasm.
Just stop dude. You are not being truthful, either intentional or not.
Also "without the british fleet"...? What? No one took out the british fleet in ww2. No one could. Hitler could never conquer the Isles at the height of his power. He himself and his own generals conceded this. What the hell are you talking about?
quote:
It’s a historical assumption.
No its not. Hitler and the oberkommand wehrmacht discussions re: sealion is public historical record
quote:
Hell, they damn near defeated them as it was.
Again. No, they didn't. Battle of Britain? Luftwaffe could not even establish air superiority. Much less ensure an entire cross-channel invasion.
If you can't inderstand the difference between sealion and D-day, then...
quote:
My grandpa was on the USS Barnes
My grandfather served as well. Landed at Utah beach. I salute your Gpa's service. You said youself the pacific war was raging in 1942, this ALSO WHAT I SAID (please look up, man).
This post was edited on 10/20/19 at 10:26 pm
1
Posted on 10/20/19 at 10:26 pm to BayouBlitz
So our troops are fighting Israel? Good to know!
Posted on 10/20/19 at 10:28 pm to troyt37
quote:
It’s always been my understanding that the pogroms were a czarist Russia thing, not a Bolshevik thing.
Holy shite, no. Read about stalin's "reformation" of the red army for starters.
Posted on 10/20/19 at 10:36 pm to troyt37
quote:
Churchill should have just been okay with Germany conquering Czechoslovakia, Poland, and France
Of course not.
Please research the alliances of the time. This is what lead to British-French declarations of war on Germany.
This is public record.
Posted on 10/20/19 at 10:46 pm to DeusVultMachina
quote:
Nazi naval power aside from the u-boat menace. Um... nope.
Tell that to the sailors on the Hood.
quote:
Also "without the british fleet"...? What? No one took out the british fleet in ww2. No one could. Hitler could never conquer the Isles at the height of his power. He himself and his own generals conceded this. What the hell are you talking about?
You keep jumping back and forth. Are we talking about the possible scenarios if the US didn’t come in with the allies, or not? Because if we don’t, Britain is done, toast. You know why you don’t hear a ton about the French naval fleet in WW2? I fugure it’s mostly because they had their asses kicked by the Germans. What would have happened to the British navy, had Germany rolled over them?
This post was edited on 10/20/19 at 10:47 pm
Posted on 10/20/19 at 10:51 pm to troyt37
quote:
you don’t hear a ton about the French naval fleet in WW2
The french naval fleet was "officially" surrendered when france capitulated. Most of the ships were actually scuttled. You can read about all of this.
Jesus, man.
Posted on 10/20/19 at 10:53 pm to troyt37
quote:
Are we talking about the possible scenarios if the US didn’t come in with the allies, or not? Because if we don’t, Britain is done, toast
This. Is not. True.
I am arguing that THE frickING COMMUNIST PIECES OF shite IN RUSSIA SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN INCLUDED IN LEND-LEASE.
We should have fought them after they defeated the Nazis. This is a damn win-win.
Posted on 10/20/19 at 10:56 pm to troyt37
We can have civil discussion, but, you need to get up to speed.
To correct your D-day knowledge deficiencies I suggest start with "The Longest Day"
An excellent book.
To correct your D-day knowledge deficiencies I suggest start with "The Longest Day"
An excellent book.
Posted on 10/20/19 at 10:58 pm to troyt37
To correct your economics, military, and logistics knowledge deficiencies in the European theater I suggest "The rise and fall of the third reich"
This post was edited on 10/20/19 at 10:58 pm
Posted on 10/20/19 at 11:02 pm to DeusVultMachina
quote:
I am arguing that THE frickING COMMUNIST PIECES OF shite IN RUSSIA SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN INCLUDED IN LEND-LEASE.
We suffered lopsided casualties fighting against the Germans.
This isn’t something I’ve ever seriously thought about, but it Germany conquers the Soviet Union, I don’t know if we win the war.
Posted on 10/20/19 at 11:03 pm to troyt37
And for the pacific theater, I suggest "The Rising Sun" time life series books.
Posted on 10/20/19 at 11:06 pm to Lima Whiskey
quote:
it Germany conquers the Soviet Union, I don’t know if we win the war.
I agree, but my point is that mathematically, Germany does not conquer Russia.
We don't arm our Russian enemies and instead wait. Continue to develop the bomb. Then destroy both when they have been bled white. A shocking FEW separate choices leading up to and during ww2 would have led to exactly the outcome I describe.
No. Cold. War.
Posted on 10/20/19 at 11:13 pm to DeusVultMachina
quote:
We don't arm our Russian enemies and instead wait. Continue to develop the bomb. Then destroy both when they have been bled white. A shocking FEW separate choices leading up to and during ww2 would have led to exactly the outcome I describe.
So, Germany, Italy, and Japan weren’t enough for us to deal with, we should have added Russia?
Posted on 10/20/19 at 11:17 pm to troyt37
We allow the Russians and Germans to fight.
We wage the pacific war.
Once the stalemate occurs in Europe (look at the math, if Hitler does not win a 3 month campaign then he doesn't win PERIOD.) We then allow it to last as long as possible for max casualty rates on both sides.
Then at THAT POINT we destroy both powers.
Believe it or not, by that time, and absent lend-lease, the russians are weaker and we have the bomb.
There is no cold war and europe and asia are pacified.
We wage the pacific war.
Once the stalemate occurs in Europe (look at the math, if Hitler does not win a 3 month campaign then he doesn't win PERIOD.) We then allow it to last as long as possible for max casualty rates on both sides.
Then at THAT POINT we destroy both powers.
Believe it or not, by that time, and absent lend-lease, the russians are weaker and we have the bomb.
There is no cold war and europe and asia are pacified.
This post was edited on 10/20/19 at 11:21 pm
Posted on 10/20/19 at 11:18 pm to troyt37
quote:
Italy
L-O-fricking-L
Come on man...
Posted on 10/20/19 at 11:30 pm to DeusVultMachina
quote:
I agree, but my point is that mathematically, Germany does not conquer Russia.
This is not something I’m in any position to have an opinion on. I’m not an expert.
I did study under a Soviet diplomat though, and he believed the Germans would have won without Lend Lease.
He pointed specifically to the rail stock, the trucks, and the food we sent. The Soviets couldn’t have fed their armies, or moved them, without our aid in the early years of the war.
He noted that the Soviets could have developed that capacity on their own, in time. But it would have come too late to make a difference, and it would have meant fewer tanks and aircraft.
quote:
We don't arm our Russian enemies and instead wait.
I wouldn’t call the Soviet Union Russia. The Soviets were actually Russophobic.
Posted on 10/20/19 at 11:37 pm to Lima Whiskey
quote:
wouldn’t call the Soviet Union Russia.
I am doing this for simplicity's sake. You and I and everyone reading know exactly what power I talk of as I use Russia and USSR interchangeably.
And NO, the Russians would not have failed without Lend-Lease. They would have MAYBE possibly (but not likely) failed without the delay. The delay refers to Hitler's diversion prior to launching the campaign, as he had to pacify the yugoslavan and grecian states.
Posted on 10/20/19 at 11:41 pm to DeusVultMachina
The russian winter and the massive russian population advantage saved the Russians.
History shows unequivocally that the Russian bear swallows all enemies that enter its jaws.
We did not need to arm them, this is false. We armed our enemies, as we have done several times prior. As we continue to do. We also armed nazi germany, look it up.
History shows unequivocally that the Russian bear swallows all enemies that enter its jaws.
We did not need to arm them, this is false. We armed our enemies, as we have done several times prior. As we continue to do. We also armed nazi germany, look it up.
Posted on 10/20/19 at 11:44 pm to DeusVultMachina
quote:
You and I and everyone reading know exactly what power I talk of as I use Russia and USSR interchangeably.
It’s dangerous shorthand, because the Soviets had a very different world view. And different ambitions.
You’ll end up making logical mistakes because you’ll conflate the two.
Posted on 10/20/19 at 11:47 pm to Lima Whiskey
Fair enough, but USSR and Russia in 1940 are absolutley synonomous terms in this discussion
And in the larger discussion of ww2 era threats that persist to this day, I mean communists, as that is the global threat I have consistenly been speaking of.
The nazis that troyt fears have been extinguished.
And in the larger discussion of ww2 era threats that persist to this day, I mean communists, as that is the global threat I have consistenly been speaking of.
The nazis that troyt fears have been extinguished.
This post was edited on 10/20/19 at 11:51 pm
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