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re: Colorado High School recites Pledge in Arabic. Heads explode.
Posted on 5/1/14 at 11:13 am to Wolfhound45
Posted on 5/1/14 at 11:13 am to Wolfhound45
quote:
That is not the point he made. The issue is not the word "God" in Arabic. The issue is the actual diety for the three religions involved (Judaism, Christianity, and Islam). "Allah" of Islam is not the same as "Jehovah" of Judaism.
While true, "God" is only relevant to the individual, whether it's Allah, or Jehovah.
2
Posted on 5/1/14 at 11:14 am to Pettifogger
quote:
you think everything referencing God was in reference to some multi-faith deity?
Actually, yes.
Do you not?
Posted on 5/1/14 at 11:15 am to Pettifogger
quote:
Why's that? In the country's founding, you think everything referencing God was in reference to some multi-faith deity?
I think they tried. Otherwise "endowed by their creator" would have been phrased more like "blessed by Jesus".
quote:
the idea that we have to eradicate independently significant historical references to God is stupid
Why? We took the time to add references (the pledge for instance) why not knock off a few as well?
Posted on 5/1/14 at 11:16 am to Choupique19
quote:
You said the same thing could be said about liberals and free speech. I am waiting for you to back up that assertion.
LINK
Because Harry Reid thinks the redskins should change their name he is against free speech. try again. #fail
Posted on 5/1/14 at 11:20 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
While true, "God" is only relevant to the individual, whether it's Allah, or Jehovah.
That is the point I am making. As an evangelical Christian, I recognize that my faith in Jesus Christ is not reciprocated by an Orthodox Jew (or even a Muslim). And a Muslim does not (strictly speaking) believe in the Jewish diety of Jehovah. Allah is more than a word in their faith - it is a very strictly held concept that denies the diety of Jesus Christ and Jehovah.
They can recite the pledge in any language they care to. My faith is not in the government of any particular nation. But it is disingenuous to equate the two (or three) concepts of a diety as one. Regardless as to which position you take, the perspective of two of the three faith groups, they are not the same. And that is fine by me.
This post was edited on 5/1/14 at 11:22 am
Posted on 5/1/14 at 11:22 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
While true, "God" is only relevant to the individual, whether it's Allah, or Jehovah.
Considering teachings about each can vary greatly for billions of people, I don't think distinctions are simply relevant for the individual.
Posted on 5/1/14 at 11:22 am to Wolfhound45
quote:
But it is disingenuous to equate the two (or three) concepts of a diety as one.
The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
Posted on 5/1/14 at 11:23 am to magildachunks
quote:
The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
From the perspective of Judaism and Islam, blasphemous (e.g. Polytheism).
From my perspective - truth.
This post was edited on 5/1/14 at 11:25 am
Posted on 5/1/14 at 11:23 am to Hawkeye95
Daniel Snyder has the right to name his football team whatever he wants to. Harry Reid is hoping to force him to change his name because it may be offensive to some people.
A Colorado student cites the pledge of allegiance in Arabic during school. Parents are offended, and they want the school to not perform it anymore.
Sounds the same to me.
So both liberals and "conservatives" are acting in the same fashion. That was my original counterpoint to your "freedom of religion only when it's my religion" post.
A Colorado student cites the pledge of allegiance in Arabic during school. Parents are offended, and they want the school to not perform it anymore.
Sounds the same to me.
So both liberals and "conservatives" are acting in the same fashion. That was my original counterpoint to your "freedom of religion only when it's my religion" post.
Posted on 5/1/14 at 11:24 am to Wolfhound45
quote:
No, it is not
yes it is. LINK
quote:
Judaism, Islam, and Christianity are sometimes called "Abrahamic religions" because they trace their history to Abraham in the Hebrew Bible
If you ask anyone from the Christian, jewish or muslim faith if they share the same god as Abraham, they will say yes.
This post was edited on 5/1/14 at 11:26 am
Posted on 5/1/14 at 11:25 am to Green Chili Tiger
quote:
Why? We took the time to add references (the pledge for instance) why not knock off a few as well?
Two stupid things don't help, do they? Why erase history to appease a PC crowd? Can't we just be adults and stop injecting religion into government, rather than trying to pretend we never did so?
quote:
I think they tried. Otherwise "endowed by their creator" would have been phrased more like "blessed by Jesus".
Somewhat, although there are countless references to "God" specifically, and practically, there were few to appease but Deists and variations of Christianity. I don't think the intent was to use God generically outside of Christianity, and there certainly isn't much evidence contrary to that.
Posted on 5/1/14 at 11:27 am to C
This is fine, except that for 1500+ years the attributes assigned to each have varied greatly and developed separately.
Posted on 5/1/14 at 11:29 am to C
quote:
Judaism, Islam, and Christianity are sometimes called "Abrahamic religions" because they trace their history to Abraham in the Hebrew Bible
The claim can be made a thousand times over, it does not equate to truth/reality. You can claim to be a descendant of "X" all you want. What text do they consider sacred and provides instruction on life and relationship with their diety?
That is the most straightforward answer to your question (regardless as to what your LINK states).
ETA:
quote:
If you ask anyone from the Christian, jewish or muslim faith if they share the same god as Abraham, they will say yes.
Then ask them what that equates to. Not even remotely the same.
- Isaac (the son of Promise)
- Ishmael (the son of a Bondwoman)
End of story.
This post was edited on 5/1/14 at 11:32 am
Posted on 5/1/14 at 11:30 am to Pettifogger
quote:
This is fine, except that for 1500+ years the attributes assigned to each have varied greatly and developed separately.
So? Are you really going down the path of saying any time "God" is referred to by the US govt, it can only refer to the Christian God?
Posted on 5/1/14 at 11:31 am to Wolfhound45
quote:
What text do they consider sacred and provides instruction on life and relationship with their diety?
Just because the 3 differ about what god intends for them to do, doesn't mean they are talking about a different entity.
This post was edited on 5/1/14 at 11:34 am
Posted on 5/1/14 at 11:34 am to C
quote:
So? Are you really going down the path of saying any time "God" is referred to by the US govt, it can only refer to the Christian God?
In modernity, no.
Historically, almost certainly. I'm sure it occurred to some that God was something of a universal term for multiple faiths, but considering there were very few early Americans of other Abrahamic religions, and almost none of any other faiths, the reference to God was absolutely directed to varying forms of Christianity.
Posted on 5/1/14 at 11:35 am to Choupique19
quote:does not equal all liberals, just as Glenn Beck doesn not equal all conservatives.
Harry Reid
You generalize way too much. It's what lazy minded people do.
Posted on 5/1/14 at 11:36 am to C
quote:
Just because the 3 differ about what god intends for them to do, doesn't mean they are talking about a different entity.
This is kind of nonsensical, right? I understand the linguistic ambiguity and the historical origin, but to say they should be considered the same, despite the radically different, often directly contrary, attributes or impressions assigned to each variation?
Posted on 5/1/14 at 11:37 am to Pettifogger
quote:
often directly contrary, attributes or impressions assigned to each variation?
post Abraham.
Posted on 5/1/14 at 11:38 am to Pettifogger
quote:
Why's that? In the country's founding, you think everything referencing God was in reference to some multi-faith deity?
In the country's founding, black people were slaves and women couldn't vote. Times change. How is this not obvious?
I think the students should learn the pledge in 10 different languages. Let them exercise their brains.
The people who are complainig just sound like
to me.
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