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re: Conservatism doesn’t always equal Christianity
Posted on 3/4/21 at 8:30 am to Jjdoc
Posted on 3/4/21 at 8:30 am to Jjdoc
quote:
Christianity is personal. Not government system.
Christianity is a worldview. Even atheists have worldviews. Hindus have worldviews. Everyone has one.
Those worldviews impact how people vote and how elected people govern. Excluding, solely by definition, someone's worldview from the public discussion because it isn't "secular" is dishonest.
0
Posted on 3/4/21 at 8:31 am to Bayoubred
quote:
The "slaves" you speak about in Scripture are actually servants who have usually sold themselves to a master to pay a debt, etc.
Citation needed.
quote:
Under your premise, The North should have left the slaves to their fate.
I'm not the one recommending we follow everything in the Bible.
quote:
I say David acted in God's will when he killed Goliath
Again, Old Testament.
quote:
Again, the Bible is not a Book of Pacifism.
That doesn't mean you should "war for freedom", though. Jesus flipping tables because scammers were scamming inside his father's house isn't the same as the Hebrews not rebelling against the Romans.
Posted on 3/4/21 at 8:39 am to UGATiger26
quote:
Then they scoffed, “He’s just a carpenter, the son of Mary and the brother of James, Joseph, Judas, and Simon. And his sisters live right here among us.”
If you had to estimate, from 18 years on to his death, what percent of time did Jesus devote to being a carpenter verses roaming around preaching?
I'd wager virtually zero as I can't imagine him hauling around carpenter tools and wood while on foot.
I'm not saying Christians have to be perfect, but right now virtually all Christians, at least here on America, put work, hobbies, even cutting their own lawn, above actively seeking out ways and people to spread the gospel.
Posted on 3/4/21 at 8:46 am to Azkiger
quote:Well, his ministry was only about three years, and the consensus seems to be that he died in his early 30s, so ten years or so.
If you had to estimate, from 18 years on to his death, what percent of time did Jesus devote to being a carpenter verses roaming around preaching?
Of course, “carpenter” is a fairly-inaccurate translation of “tekton” anyway. It really means something more like “builder” or perhaps “craftsman,” as I recall. And "tekton" was a translation of some Aramaic word which was not recorded on any written document that survived to modern times, so it is equally-possible that "tekton" was a mistranslation as well. It is a stretch to imagine Jesus spending ten years wandering around Galilee with a bunch of 2x4s strapped to his back, looking for carpentry work.
I have read some interesting work positing that he worked on construction of Tiberias for Herod Antipater as a young man before starting his ministry. Apparently a lot of Galilean rekrons did so. If he spent much time in Tiberias, it would go a long way toward explaining his obvious dislike for little Herod.
This post was edited on 3/4/21 at 9:40 am
Posted on 3/4/21 at 8:47 am to Azkiger
quote:
If you had to estimate, from 18 years on to his death, what percent of time did Jesus devote to being a carpenter verses roaming around preaching?
Well, it's estimated that he started his ministry around 30 years old.
So probably a pretty good bit.
Posted on 3/4/21 at 8:47 am to BiteMe2020
quote:
Atheism is the assertion that god does not exist. If you simply have a lack of belief, you're agnostic.
Sorta, Atheism speaks to belief. Agnosticism speaks to knowledge.
For example, I’m an atheist because I don’t believe there is evidence to believe in your God or any other God proposed by man.
I’m an agnostic because I don’t have knowledge that a God does or doesn’t exist.
So, I’m an agnostic atheist if you need a label.
Posted on 3/4/21 at 8:48 am to Azkiger
quote:
If you had to estimate, from 18 years on to his death, what percent of time did Jesus devote to being a carpenter verses roaming around preaching?
It's commonly thought that Jesus began his ministry sometime around the age of 30 and died around the age of 33, so a 3 year ministry.
Nothing is really said about Jesus from the time his parents couldn't find him in the temple (maybe around age 12) and when he was close to 30.
quote:
I'm not saying Christians have to be perfect, but right now virtually all Christians, at least here on America, put work, hobbies, even cutting their own lawn, above actively seeking out ways and people to spread the gospel.
That's a fair criticism indeed. Christians aren't perfect, and that's a tenant of our beliefs. We can all do better.
Posted on 3/4/21 at 8:50 am to TigerBlazer
quote:
How can you vote for someone who supports the death penalty, and call yourself a Christian.
Or war. Or throwing children in cages and separating them from their parents.
You are comparing some one is guilty of first degree murder to an innocent un born child. Wow!! People like you are evil
Posted on 3/4/21 at 9:05 am to BiteMe2020
quote:
Historically, the "a" in atheist meant "against" not "without" - meaning "against a belief in god or gods". While the prefix "a" has historically either meant "not" "against" or "without" - in the case of "atheist", it means against a belief in god or gods.
Nope, a has always meant without.
Asymmetric isn't "against" symmetry, its "without" symmetry. Asexual reproduction is the same.
You're just flat out wrong.
Out of curiosity, what word would you use to describe someone who is without belief in a deity?
Posted on 3/4/21 at 9:12 am to AggieHank86
quote:
Well, his ministry was only about three years
Was that how much of it was recorded? I don't recall any Gospel describing the first steps that started his ministry.
Posted on 3/4/21 at 9:16 am to Azkiger
quote:
I don't recall any Gospel describing the first steps that started his ministry.
?
Luke 3:23
quote:
Now Jesus himself was about thirty years old when he began his ministry.
Posted on 3/4/21 at 9:17 am to Flats
quote:
Nobody's trying to run anybody off. YOU made the claim that your values are based on logic, the unspoken implication being that a Christian's values are based on something other than logic, like the superstitions of a bunch of Bronze Age goat herders.
All I'm trying to do is get you to recognize that you can't get moral values from logic. And if you agree politically with Christians you need to understand that, because a good chunk of the country has been led to believe that if a belief comes from the Bible it doesn't matter what the voters say, the courts should strike it down. At the working level moral beliefs are subjective. Yours, mine, everybody's.
How in the world can you proclaim where someone can or cannot derive their morals from? That’s just a bald-faced assertion.
Posted on 3/4/21 at 9:20 am to Hammer of Rod
I would agree.
Posted on 3/4/21 at 9:30 am to UGATiger26
quote:
?
I never said it didn't cover that, I just said I couldn't recall reading anything about it
Posted on 3/4/21 at 10:17 am to Flats
quote:
Nobody's trying to run anybody off. YOU made the claim that your values are based on logic, the unspoken implication being that a Christian's values are based on something other than logic, like the superstitions of a bunch of Bronze Age goat herders.
All I'm trying to do is get you to recognize that you can't get moral values from logic. And if you agree politically with Christians you need to understand that, because a good chunk of the country has been led to believe that if a belief comes from the Bible it doesn't matter what the voters say, the courts should strike it down. At the working level moral beliefs are subjective. Yours, mine, everybody's.
Just wanted to point out that by the time Jesus was born, the iron age was in place in the ANE. "Bronze Age goat herders" is a common slur used against Christians. Just because they couldn't get fires hot enough to melt iron ore during a part of the Old Testament doesn't mean that the writers of the Bible were complete drooling dolts.
You can get morals from logic, indeed. You just need a base assumption. Sam Harris, an atheist, is famous for trying (and failing, IMHO) to form an objective, logic based moral system. The problem with atheists who try to rigorously profer a system of morals is that they always have to smuggle in an underlying moral postulate or axiom. That base axiom is never successfully defended by atheists.
Nevertheless, yes, you can develop a system of morality based on logic, and there are numerous flavors - utilitarianism, compatibilism, ethical relativism, etc. On and on the logical theories go. But they're based on rigorous logic and debate for the most part (once they assume a founding axiom).
This post was edited on 3/4/21 at 10:18 am
Posted on 3/4/21 at 10:32 am to Revelator
quote:
Conservatism doesn’t always equal Christianity
100% Correct.
However, Conservatism does equal Religious!
Religious does not equal Christian.
Religion is a set of man made guide lines that conservatives tend to follow. For example, The KKK was considered themselves Christians, but nowhere in the bible does it say to do the things they were doing to non white people. Their practice of racism was used through their religious guidelines.
Christian is to be Christ like. I don't find Christ Like qualities often in Conservatives!
Posted on 3/4/21 at 10:37 am to Azkiger
quote:
Nope, a has always meant without.
Asymmetric isn't "against" symmetry, its "without" symmetry. Asexual reproduction is the same.
You're just flat out wrong.
Out of curiosity, what word would you use to describe someone who is without belief in a deity?
Nah, atheists, historically, have been people affirmatively denying the existence of God. This "we lack a belief in God" has only come about in the last 100 years or so, thanks to logical positivism and the like. This "lack of belief in god" came about because philosophers argued that no belief either way should be the default starting position for an argument for or against anything.
Historically, an agnostic is one who claimed that "I lack a belief in god" - one way or the other. Also, in the Latin, agnostic can be translated as "ignoramus".
It's a copout developed by more modern atheist to avoid defending an affirmative position logically.
Many of the so-called "lack a belief" atheists make arguments against the Judeo-Christian god specifically, and so are not simply "lacking in belief", lol. They're affirming that they believe that god does not exist.
Posted on 3/4/21 at 10:38 am to LaTexSaint
quote:
Religion is a set of man made guide lines that conservatives tend to follow.
Man didn't invent morality. They discovered it.
Posted on 3/4/21 at 10:43 am to BiteMe2020
quote:Recently, I have enjoyed discussions with both you and Azkiger, and I find myself wondering why the two of you are arguing about the meaning of the a- prefix in the original Greek (or even its generic meaning in English), rather than looking at the full WORD in modern English usage?
BiteMe2020
In modern usage, the distinction between atheist and agnostic is that (i) an atheist has an affirmative belief that no deity exists and (ii) an agnostic says he has no idea whether deities exist or not.
Without that distinction, there is no reason for the use of the two distinct terms.
Posted on 3/4/21 at 10:47 am to BiteMe2020
quote:
You just need a base assumption
quote:
once they assume a founding axiom
quote:
they always have to smuggle in an underlying moral postulate or axiom.
Because you can't derive those from logic, which is what I've been saying over and over and you have been failing to understand.
The rest of your post is confusing behavior with values. Once you have the basics that you mentioned above, of course you can use logic to inform your behavior. Values and behaviors that try to reflect those values aren't the same thing.
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