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re: Do any former libertarians feel ideologically lost?
Posted on 10/18/17 at 11:15 am to Collegedropout
Posted on 10/18/17 at 11:15 am to Collegedropout
I mean it's tough out there. I'm glad Trump is removing a lot of the red tape, but we are still getting heavily involved in foreign conflicts and spending way too much money. I personally find the guy distasteful, and didn't vote for him.
0
Posted on 10/18/17 at 11:20 am to Collegedropout
I have never considered myself completely libertarian...but no, id say im more of a pragmatist now. Carrollian would be the best way to describe me
Posted on 10/18/17 at 11:20 am to Y.A. Tittle
How am I confused? Too many people, mainly conservatives, aren't willing to have an open and frank conversation about the shortcomings of the constitution, look earlier in this thread for someone saying that calling the constitution junk isn't worth talking to.
Too many people want to pump this thing up as something that should be touched or changed only in extreme circumstances. That isn't the case and I wish we could fix some of the issues, though I acknowledge conservatives probably don't have the clout to fix what I want fixed.
Examples of things that should be fixed, (a) the second amendment wording should be cleared up to preserve the individual right, (b) wickard should be overturned by amendment, (c) the commerce clause should be clearly defined and limited.
Too many people want to pump this thing up as something that should be touched or changed only in extreme circumstances. That isn't the case and I wish we could fix some of the issues, though I acknowledge conservatives probably don't have the clout to fix what I want fixed.
Examples of things that should be fixed, (a) the second amendment wording should be cleared up to preserve the individual right, (b) wickard should be overturned by amendment, (c) the commerce clause should be clearly defined and limited.
Posted on 10/18/17 at 11:24 am to Collegedropout
Yeah, the political climate has definitely made me second guess some of my beliefs. It's hard to remain principled in these times.
This post was edited on 10/18/17 at 11:25 am
Posted on 10/18/17 at 11:25 am to Collegedropout
yes. I was pretty hard core libertarian 20-35 or so. I still really like libertarianism but i find it unrealistic. I still clutch to many of those beliefs but I lost my idealogical underpinnings.
Posted on 10/18/17 at 11:29 am to bobby_3_sticks
Libertarianism has always had a tinge of unrealism. It's sort of like communism where it only works in its purest form when everyone on the planet agrees with you.
But to me, it's more of a worldview than a system of government or even political party. Perhaps that is why it fails.
But to me, it's more of a worldview than a system of government or even political party. Perhaps that is why it fails.
Posted on 10/18/17 at 11:30 am to CorporateTiger
The commerce clause has to be one of the biggest oversights of the original authors.
Posted on 10/18/17 at 11:33 am to bobby_3_sticks
quote:
still clutch to many of those beliefs but I lost my idealogical underpinnings.
Pure libertarian government is impossible because people are eager to trade liberty for security. However the ideals behind it are still workable in any system. I'll never accept that the good of society comes before the liberty of the individual
We're increasingly dealing with a dumbed down world of politics, I can't let stupidity rule
This post was edited on 10/18/17 at 11:35 am
Posted on 10/18/17 at 11:34 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:link? that sounds like a pretty concise definition of libertarian socialism, not me expressing my opinion on capitalism
You, yesterday
pure capitalism is just as dumb as pure socialism, sure, but neither can exist on their own, as greed will ultimately corrupt. common sense would lean towards going with a system that thrives on greed, kept in check by regulation to protect the workers/middle class.
Posted on 10/18/17 at 11:35 am to Tiguar
Yet if you suggested going back and clearly defining a scope of authority for the Fed Gov, a lot of conservatives would flip their shite because they believe that using tortuous interpretations of language written by the founding fathers is a better way to do things.
Posted on 10/18/17 at 11:35 am to Machine
quote:
kept in check by regulation to protect the workers/middle class.
Who keeps them in check?
Posted on 10/18/17 at 11:36 am to RogerTheShrubber
He already clearly defined what he would change.
Posted on 10/18/17 at 11:37 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:you already know the answer to this, instead of trying to spoon-feed me to your gotcha moment, just jump to it
Who keeps them in check?
Posted on 10/18/17 at 11:39 am to Tiguar
quote:
He already clearly defined what he would change.
It appears to me he needs heavy hands of authority to accomplish his muting odd free markets.
Posted on 10/18/17 at 11:39 am to Tiguar
There's a couple of others, like the SCOTUS should have a set number of members to avoid court packing. Requirements on how to determine the appellate circuits by case load etc.
Posted on 10/18/17 at 11:39 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
It appears to me he needs heavy hands of authority to accomplish his muting odd free markets.
What free markets am I tampering with? Fixing Wickard and the Commerce Clause would eliminate huge swathes of regulations.
This post was edited on 10/18/17 at 11:41 am
Posted on 10/18/17 at 11:40 am to Machine
quote:
you already know the answer to this, instead of trying to spoon-feed me to your gotcha moment, just jump to it
It appears you already know your authoritarian tendencies, youre just ashamed to admit them
Posted on 10/18/17 at 11:41 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:so i've gone from authoritarian to having authoritarian tendencies. awesome
authoritarian tendencies
Posted on 10/18/17 at 11:43 am to Machine
quote:
so i've gone from authoritarian to having authoritarian tendencies
You're making progress
Posted on 10/18/17 at 11:44 am to Tiguar
quote:
Libertarianism has always had a tinge of unrealism. It's sort of like communism where it only works in its purest form when everyone on the planet agrees with you.
Exactly.
And it's exactly why it doesn't work in the real world and why I'm a strict law and order guy when it comes to legal and illegal immigration.
I want immigration levels as possibly low as they can be. We admit well over a million people into the U.S. legally. That's like a brand new state of Montana or one of the dakotas popping up ever year and that's not sustainable.
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