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Started By
Message
re: Do the Confederate statues coming done peacefully bother you or is ripping down the issue?
Posted on 7/1/20 at 3:28 pm to Covingtontiger77
Posted on 7/1/20 at 3:28 pm to Covingtontiger77
quote:
I’m having trouble seeing my disconnect for asking if a Hitler statue would be ok as a remembrance since some also want remberances of men:
A) were fighting to permanently leave the US and
B) were fighting to keep human beings as slaves
I can't even take anyone seriously who compares Nazi Germany to the Confederacy, sorry.
1
Posted on 7/1/20 at 3:29 pm to Covingtontiger77
It has nothing to do with Confederate statues. They started there because it was easy to get small minds to agree with them that those should be taken down. Now they can do work to convince those small minds about other white people in statues.
Posted on 7/1/20 at 3:33 pm to Covingtontiger77
My issue is the getting rid of statues in some way is equal to getting rid of history.
This is a famous quote from the book 1984. Many here recognize it. But the young people won't. This book is no longer taught in school because the book is actually what they want.
These statues, good, bad or indifferent all represent things from the past. Real or not, the status at least remind people of the past. And the past is extremely important for us to remember.
Just because the country had slavery is not a reason to get rid of the statues. Because the country had slavery is a reason to keep the statues.
Why do the Jews have Holocaust museums? Why do the keep Auschwitz open as a museum? Do they tear it down?
Regardless of which side of the civil way you fall on, many great people died and many great people sacrificed much and many people showed great courage. These people should not be forgotten. The civil war should not be forgotten. Slavery should not be forgotten.
People today can learn from history. Because people are people. Many of the hopes, dreams, and drives that people have here in America are there same as those from China are the same as this from ancient Greece are the same as ancient Egypt.
And the smart man can learn from others mistakes, the stupid one can only learn from his own mistakes. For that reason, history is the story of the mistakes and the corrections from history. Learn from them or obviously as the saying goes repeat them.
Statues, monuments and museums are all ways of preserving history. And that is something we all should do.
quote:
Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right.
This is a famous quote from the book 1984. Many here recognize it. But the young people won't. This book is no longer taught in school because the book is actually what they want.
These statues, good, bad or indifferent all represent things from the past. Real or not, the status at least remind people of the past. And the past is extremely important for us to remember.
Just because the country had slavery is not a reason to get rid of the statues. Because the country had slavery is a reason to keep the statues.
Why do the Jews have Holocaust museums? Why do the keep Auschwitz open as a museum? Do they tear it down?
Regardless of which side of the civil way you fall on, many great people died and many great people sacrificed much and many people showed great courage. These people should not be forgotten. The civil war should not be forgotten. Slavery should not be forgotten.
People today can learn from history. Because people are people. Many of the hopes, dreams, and drives that people have here in America are there same as those from China are the same as this from ancient Greece are the same as ancient Egypt.
And the smart man can learn from others mistakes, the stupid one can only learn from his own mistakes. For that reason, history is the story of the mistakes and the corrections from history. Learn from them or obviously as the saying goes repeat them.
Statues, monuments and museums are all ways of preserving history. And that is something we all should do.
Posted on 7/1/20 at 3:36 pm to OchoDedos
quote:
Don't be obtuse and retarded.
How is it different? Appeals to ridicule don't count.
Posted on 7/1/20 at 3:38 pm to Covingtontiger77
quote:
I’m MAGA as they come and have lived in SE LA my whole life but the statue issue is neither personal nor makes much sense to me.
I'm pro-Trump and pro-America and IDGAF about a runner-up trophy like the Confederate flag
Posted on 7/1/20 at 3:38 pm to wackatimesthree
quote:
How is it different? Appeals to ridicule don't count.
Are you asking how the Confederacy was different from Nazi Germany?
This post was edited on 7/1/20 at 3:39 pm
Posted on 7/1/20 at 3:39 pm to Schmelly
quote:
Having them in a museum doesn’t necessarily make celebratory
I disagree. A statue that once was placed in a position of importance shouldn’t be moved to another place where people can admire it and feel like it has made a difference. They should all be peacefully taken down and destroyed. Or given back to the artist or family and then locked up or destroyed.
Posted on 7/1/20 at 3:41 pm to Big Scrub TX
quote:
The poor south. Where were even poorer blacks during this same awful period for the south?
Look, do you think the scalawags and carpetbaggers who pushed for a punitive Reconstruction helped the black populace? I'd argue Reconstruction made things worse for everyone in the south especially those recently emancipated. Southern whites were 1 terrified of them after being fed stories like the terror of santo domingo for a generation, and 2 blamed them for all their woes.
Had the Republicans taken a more modest approach to Reconstruction I don't think the virulent racism, lynch mobs, and black scapegoating would have been as bad. The Radical Republicans exacerbated a white vs. black struggle that did not have to be as bad as it was. White supremacy was the rule of the day, but Reconstruction made it worse.
Posted on 7/1/20 at 3:46 pm to SidewalkTiger
quote:
I can't even take anyone seriously who compares Nazi Germany to the Confederacy, sorry.
Was Nazi history erased due to Denazification? All of the statues / monuments to Sadamm or the banning of his Ba'athh party?
What the US did in Germany / Iraq was a Taliban like erasure of history according to Neo Confederates.
Posted on 7/1/20 at 3:49 pm to wackatimesthree
A part of all this statue hysteria is a further entrenchment of the concept of “presentism” whereby the past is judged by current laws, morals and morays of present times without considering the times in which history actually took place.
— The US should not have used the atomic bombs on Japan some 75 years ago.
— Erection of Confederate statues more than 120 years ago.
— Saying the Founding Fathers didn’t actually mean you should have weapons when they wrote the Second Amendment nearly 250 years ago.
And so on.
— The US should not have used the atomic bombs on Japan some 75 years ago.
— Erection of Confederate statues more than 120 years ago.
— Saying the Founding Fathers didn’t actually mean you should have weapons when they wrote the Second Amendment nearly 250 years ago.
And so on.
Posted on 7/1/20 at 3:49 pm to sugar71
quote:
What the US did in Germany / Iraq was a Taliban like erasure of history according to Neo Confederates.
Are you comparing kids rioting in the street to an invading army?
Posted on 7/1/20 at 3:55 pm to Tiger on the Rag
quote:
Taking down the statues does absolutely nothing for race relations. If anything it creates a wider gap.
Exactly the purpose for removing them and as you say, it's working as planned.
Posted on 7/1/20 at 3:57 pm to Covingtontiger77
quote:
Downvote away
Ask and ye shall receive
Posted on 7/1/20 at 4:17 pm to Covingtontiger77
I consider these statues art, statement art specifically. One could argue they are a poke in the eye or an "up yours" kind of art.
Can anyone have statement art destroyed or removed if they find it deeply offensive? I have seen museums display art that is intended to poke someone in the eye and I have heard folks complain about that but I do not remember having seen it taken down.
Can anyone have statement art destroyed or removed if they find it deeply offensive? I have seen museums display art that is intended to poke someone in the eye and I have heard folks complain about that but I do not remember having seen it taken down.
Posted on 7/1/20 at 6:51 pm to Covingtontiger77
It really doesn't matter what you think they represent it's still art and valuable as it displays creative craftsmanship which should be appreciated for as long as it lasts.
The rest is just fluff and arguments the unwashed Taliban would make.
The rest is just fluff and arguments the unwashed Taliban would make.
Posted on 7/1/20 at 9:15 pm to sparkinator
(no message)
This post was edited on 2/7/21 at 12:17 pm
Posted on 7/1/20 at 9:18 pm to Covingtontiger77
Good or bad they need to stay as a lesson learned. History cannot be rewritten, we need to learn from the mistakes.
Posted on 7/1/20 at 9:21 pm to Covingtontiger77
Come towards Talisheek and see my Lee statue.
Posted on 7/1/20 at 9:21 pm to HeadSlash
(no message)
This post was edited on 2/7/21 at 12:17 pm
Posted on 7/1/20 at 9:31 pm to Covingtontiger77
Attempts to erase historical monuments bothers me. The premise is that they are taking the monuments down bc the men had flaws. All men have flaws. Giving in to the premise of the confederate monuments to come
Down leads to people thinking Abe Lincoln was an unrighteous man. All men have faults. These were great men they built this wonderful country and they should be celebrated. Erasing history is the first step to building this new utopia that liberal
Keeps preaching. These people are insane
Down leads to people thinking Abe Lincoln was an unrighteous man. All men have faults. These were great men they built this wonderful country and they should be celebrated. Erasing history is the first step to building this new utopia that liberal
Keeps preaching. These people are insane
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