- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Winter Olympics
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: Let's talk about military spending
Posted on 3/18/17 at 10:14 am to GeauxxxTigers23
Posted on 3/18/17 at 10:14 am to GeauxxxTigers23
quote:
Have lots of tanks in the national guard
We had "lots of tanks" in the national guard in 1990. And not a single one made it to the desert. Bot one.
As for the marine battalion that did make it, if I'm not mistaken wasn't it also an artillery BN?
2
Posted on 3/18/17 at 10:14 am to Darth_Vader
Come on bro. We are not talking armor versus infantry heavy BCT and supporting structure. I am saying have AC and RC Soldiers assigned to the same structure. Keep a core group of AC on and bring in the reservists for intensive training periods. Do not do the foolish and wasteful drills. Bring them in quarterly instead.
Posted on 3/18/17 at 10:14 am to Lakeboy7
quote:
The fight for resources has the grownups distracted and readiness goes right out the window with the baby and the bath water when that happens.
This happens so quickly, folks would be shocked. It doesn't even taken months - weeks is enough to notice it.
Posted on 3/18/17 at 10:15 am to Darth_Vader
quote:Not because it was impossible to do. The Army just didn't need to because it already had thousands of them sitting in Germany.
We had "lots of tanks" in the national guard in 1990. And not a single one made it to the desert. Bot one.
quote:Forgot about the arty BN. There was a reserve infantry BN as well. The 3rd BN, 23rd Marines out of New Orleans and Baton Rouge as a matter of fact. Hell, there may have been some tank and LAV guys there too. I'd have to research.
As for the marine battalion that did make it, if I'm not mistaken wasn't it also an artillery BN?
This post was edited on 3/18/17 at 10:17 am
Posted on 3/18/17 at 10:19 am to GeauxxxTigers23
quote:
No Guard maneuver unit was certified "combat ready" and deployed for Desert Shield/Desert Storm. They were just getting to that point when it was all over.
There was a big hoo-rah about that here in Georgia. The story was that this brigade was failed in its testing simply because the active duty didn't want it shown that NG units could be effective.
Guardsmen Return From War They Didn't Fight
By PETER APPLEBOME, Special to The New York Times
Published: March 27, 1991
ROME, Ga., March 26— For the crowd of dignitaries, the high school marching band and the horde of reporters at Hunter Army Airfield in Savannah, it looked as if the big moment had finally arrived when a plane landed around midnight earlier this month, apparently bringing the first troops home from the Persian Gulf war.
But instead of victorious warriors returning here after dismantling Iraq's Republican Guard, the plane carried men of the 48th Infantry Brigade, made up of National Guardsmen who had been activated as an early deployment combat force, only to spend the war training in the California desert.
And instead of a heroes' welcome, they were quietly shunted out of view so as not to distract from the fanfare that the war veterans received when they landed a half-hour later.
There are worse things to go through than training for a war but not being sent into combat. But for the troops of the 48th Brigade, 69 of whom were being deactivated today at the National Guard armory here that is the home of Company A, First Battalion, 108th Armor Regiment, that moment at the airfield in Savannah summed up the frustrations of their deployment. A Struggle for Influence
Many believed their experience had as much to do with the struggle for influence within the military as it did with the fighting in the gulf.
"They were given a hero's welcome and sent out the front gate," First Lieut. Bill Jinright, a 29-year-old insurance salesman from Dalton, Ga., who is one of the brigade's 4,200 members, said of the returning war veterans. "We were thrown in buses and slid out the back gate. We wear the U.S. Army patch over our left breast, close to the heart and everything, and we just weren't treated equally."
Common, too, among brigade members was a frustration that the unit was deployed too late, given inadequate equipment, never taken seriously by the Army and then branded a failure."
LINK
I recall from that period that the Pentagon didn't want to take -any- reserve or NG combat units. For the same reason - they didn't WANT them to be effective.
But the Congress said, "Nuh-uh. The reserves and NG have Apaches, Abrams tanks, Bradleys, etc. They need to deploy."
Posted on 3/18/17 at 10:19 am to Ace Midnight
quote:
This happens so quickly, folks would be shocked. It doesn't even taken months - weeks is enough to notice it.
Yeah, but hey its what we do right? in 24 years this is the 3rd time I've seen it. (In Homer Simpson voice) Doh, readiness.
I can tell you this with confidence, the US Army and its reserve components couldnt fight its way out of a wet paper sack right now.
Posted on 3/18/17 at 10:20 am to Wolfhound45
quote:
Do not do the foolish and wasteful drills. Bring them in quarterly instead.
But how will they ever get their sexual assault PowerPoints and Never Shake Your Baby training?
Posted on 3/18/17 at 10:25 am to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:
But how will they ever get their sexual assault PowerPoints and Never Shake Your Baby training?
This is also a good example of why the Guard/Reserve Cyber units wiped the floor with the AD teams during Cyber Guard for several years in a row (and probably will do it again this year.)
My day job is a cyber engineer/analyst. I have "stick time" all day every day. No mandatory bullshite to eat up a massive chunk of available time on keyboard.
Posted on 3/18/17 at 10:26 am to Wolfhound45
quote:
Bring them in quarterly instead.
This would make me very happy.
Posted on 3/18/17 at 10:29 am to Centinel
I'd agree to an extent, but not all cyber reservists are operators during their civilian time.
Posted on 3/18/17 at 10:31 am to GeauxxxTigers23
quote:
Not because it was impossible to do. The Army just didn't need to because it already had thousands of them sitting in Germany.
I wasn't talking about the tanks themselves, I was talking about the troops themselves. And if you do away with the regular army, those tanks and more importantly their combat ready crews won't be there next time.
I don't think you fully grasp what is required to take a peacetime guard unit and turn it into a deployable active duty maneuver unit. It's not a matter of just doing some maintenance on tanks and trucks, it's a matter of training and logistics. You can't speed up training, it takes time.
quote:
Forgot about the arty BN. There was a reserve infantry BN as well. The 3rd BN, 23rd Marines out of New Orleans and Baton Rouge as a matter of fact. Hell, there may have been some tank and LAV guys there too. I'd have to research.
See that's the problem. You think being able to deploy one battalion in six months is something significant. If the Russians have something like three entire Fronts (army groups) rolling across Central Europe, what is one battalion going to do to stem the tide?
The army deployed three entire brigades from it reserve components. And even that was not nearly enough to fight a war without the regular army.,
Posted on 3/18/17 at 10:34 am to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:In my utopian all reserve force I you worked cyber in the civilian world you'd work cyber in the military too whether you liked it or not. Same goes for mechanics, pilots, engineers, etc.
I'd agree to an extent, but not all cyber reservists are operators during their civilian time.
Posted on 3/18/17 at 10:36 am to Darth_Vader
quote:Well I've done it three times so I kinda do.
I don't think you fully grasp what is required to take a peacetime guard unit and turn it into a deployable active duty maneuver unit.
quote:Actually I don't think it's that significant at all. In fact, on my 04 deployment to Iraq we mobilized and deployed in less than 4 months and did more than our fair share of "maneuvering."
See that's the problem. You think being able to deploy one battalion in six months is something significant.
Posted on 3/18/17 at 10:37 am to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:
I'd agree to an extent, but not all cyber reservists are operators during their civilian time.
True. At least on the Guard side I'd say there are probably a good twenty States that field Cyber teams where upwards of 90% or more of the team does Cyber (or at least IT) as their day job. All but two of my team do Cyber on civilian side, and the two that don't are still in IT.
Now where we are behind the AD teams are our Intel Analysts, but as more and more big corporations start having threat intel teams on their cybersecurity divisions, that gap will hopefully close.
Posted on 3/18/17 at 10:38 am to GeauxxxTigers23
quote:
In my utopian all reserve force I you worked cyber in the civilian world you'd work cyber in the military too whether you liked it or not. Same goes for mechanics, pilots, engineers, etc
What about tankers, grunts, and red legs? Last time I checked there's not many civilian jobs where you are required to crew a tank in combat conditions or conduct artillery fire missions.
Posted on 3/18/17 at 10:39 am to Darth_Vader
quote:All the people without a correlating skill set can be the cannon fodder.
What about tankers, grunts, and red legs? Last time I checked there's not many civilian jobs where you are required to crew a tank in combat conditions or conduct artillery fire missions.
Posted on 3/18/17 at 10:40 am to Lakeboy7
quote:
Yeah, but hey its what we do right? in 24 years this is the 3rd time I've seen it. (In Homer Simpson voice) Doh, readiness.
I'm starting my 30th year here in a couple of weeks... you're preaching to the choir.
Posted on 3/18/17 at 10:40 am to Centinel
We have a lot of reserve intel analysts going through cyber training courses. I think that gap will close on its own as the services start to understand what cyber can do. We saw the same thing with SIGINT early and commanders eventually caught up.
Posted on 3/18/17 at 10:42 am to Darth_Vader
quote:
What about tankers, grunts, and red legs? Last time I checked there's not many civilian jobs where you are required to crew a tank in combat conditions or conduct artillery fire missions.
Those jobs don't require nearly the same amount of training and experience to be effective.
Posted on 3/18/17 at 10:43 am to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:
But how will they ever get their sexual assault PowerPoints and Never Shake Your Baby training?
That's the new (newish, maybe) secret of the reserve components - they're pushing most of that onto the reserve component soldier to do on his/her own time.
Everybody wins, right?
Page 18 of 32
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News