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Started By
Message
re: My 16 year old daughter has covid.
Posted on 8/30/21 at 4:18 pm to BillWilliamson
Posted on 8/30/21 at 4:18 pm to BillWilliamson
Can y'all tell me what page the fight starts?
2
Posted on 8/30/21 at 4:30 pm to Corso
quote:
Can y'all tell me what page the fight starts?
Whenever the "doctor" jumped in
Posted on 8/30/21 at 4:34 pm to Corso
Page one.
Posted on 8/30/21 at 4:42 pm to JayWhite
quote:
This is called whataboutism
Dude, learn words.
quote:
whataboutism: a conversational tactic in which a person responds to an argument or attack by changing the subject to focus on someone else’s misconduct, implying that all criticism is invalid because no one is completely blameless
No one shifted focus away from that study. I specifically showed you that decision makers took action based on the study that you called a success, by telling the world that the vaccines were waning.
quote:
CDC Director: ‘Concerning Evidence’ Shows COVID-19 Vaccine Effectiveness ‘Waning’ Against Delta Variant. August 19, 2021
LINK
quote:
Covid immunity wanes 6 months after the Pfizer vaccine, Pfizer CEO Albert Bourla Wed, Jul 28 2021
quote:
Moderna CEO Stéphane Bancel said "First, immunity wanes with time, meaning rollover of antibodies you have in your body from the vaccine."
LINK
I made a direct refutation to your absurd point of continuing effectiveness. However, it does reinforce what other posters are saying. You speak on a topic with very little understanding, and use terms that you don't fully understand, with the utmost confidence that you do.
Posted on 8/30/21 at 4:51 pm to League Champs
quote:
Dude, learn words.
You responded to my post about cherry-picking data to support the claim that the vaccine "quit working" with what about these people who "cherry-picked the data to recommend a booster."
Are you illiterate?
quote:
No one shifted focus away from that study. I specifically showed you that decision makers took action based on the study that you called a success, by telling the world that the vaccines were waning.
I mean...let's see what the study's author had to say...
quote:
The study researchers determined the Pfizer vaccine remains 85% effective against hospitalization from COVID-19 and 100% effective in preventing death among study participants. Badley said using just the 42% figure to undermine the FDA’s approval of the vaccine or to suggest it does not work amounts to “an incorrect analysis of the data.”
He added that there is no data to suggest the vaccine’s effectiveness at preventing severe disease and death has declined over time.
“What our report has shown is that both mRNA vaccines, Pfizer and Moderna together, maintain very very strong protections against hospitalization and death and as a vaccine recipient those are the primary outcomes we’re interested in,” Badley said.
Certainly doesn't seem like "strong protections" for the "primary outcomes we're interested in" indicates it "quit working."
quote:
I made a direct refutation to your absurd point of continuing effectiveness. However, it does reinforce what other posters are saying. You speak on a topic with very little understanding, and use terms that you don't fully understand, with the utmost confidence that you do.
I don't think you're in a position to make this assessment considering the bullshite you led with.
This post was edited on 8/30/21 at 5:06 pm
Posted on 8/30/21 at 6:13 pm to JayWhite
quote:quote:
I mean...let's see what the study's author had to say...
The study researchers determined the Pfizer vaccine remains 85% effective against hospitalization from COVID-19 and 100% effective in preventing death
Your defense now consists of gibberish, hogwash, and all out lies. Did you expect the author to say "We lied"? Because we all know the vaccines are not 100% against death. Even the lying authors have since admitted as much.
But again, your brain simply isn't capable of discerning people's words from their actions. While this guy says he is confident in his results, he told another story to the decision makers. That is why they sought rapid permission for boosters.
Because immediately after the booster approval, you started seeing this in the media.
quote:
"I think [the study] says that there is a possibility that we may need booster doses if the protective efficacy of the vaccine continues to decline over time, but that to me is still an unanswered question."
Even a co-author said its an unanswered question from his own study
quote:
"We are concerned that this pattern of decline we are seeing will continue in the months ahead, which could lead to reduced protection against severe disease hospitalization and death," Surgeon General Vivek Murthy said.
quote:
The study suggested that vaccines alone won't be enough to reduce new COVID-19 cases and hospitalizations.
CDC
quote:.
Tim Spector a professor of genetic epidemiology at King's College London, warned that waning vaccine effectiveness could lead to more hospitalisations and deaths by winter.
"In my opinion, a reasonable worst-case scenario could see protection below 50 percent against severe disease for healthcare workers by winter." If high levels of infection remain, fuelled by the more transmissible Delta variant and easing of restrictions, "this scenario could mean increased hospitalisations and deaths", the scientist said. "We urgently need to make plans for vaccine boosters," Spector added
All of that since August 18th.
You should really stop defending the effectiveness of the original vaccine. Because the experts certainly aren't.
Posted on 8/30/21 at 6:19 pm to League Champs
The fundamental reality gleaned from this thread is that Jay doesn't actually understand ANY of the data so, the best he can do is find a quote that he likes and run with it.
This is why there is exactly zero in this thread in terms of him describing HIS understanding of the data as found in his or any other link.
He can't. It would be like me trying to tell you which rocket designer had the best design. About all I could do would be to quote what someone else said about the designs. That's all Jay can do here.
This is why there is exactly zero in this thread in terms of him describing HIS understanding of the data as found in his or any other link.
He can't. It would be like me trying to tell you which rocket designer had the best design. About all I could do would be to quote what someone else said about the designs. That's all Jay can do here.
Posted on 8/30/21 at 6:26 pm to League Champs
quote:
Your defense now consists of gibberish, hogwash, and all out lies.
I'm not defending the study. I'm not even the one who originally brought it up. You'd know that if you were capable of following a discussion.
quote:
Did you expect the author to say "We lied"? Because we all know the vaccines are not 100% against death. Even the lying authors have since admitted as much.
I quoted the study that was referenced. Nothing more and nothing less.
quote:
But again, your brain simply isn't capable of discerning people's words from their actions. While this guy says he is confident in his results, he told another story to the decision makers. That is why they sought rapid permission for boosters.
You're too stupid to know that every time you post, you're proving my original point for me.
I suppose I should thank you for that, even if it isn't intentional.
quote:
You should really stop defending the effectiveness of the original vaccine. Because the experts certainly aren't.
Well...
quote:
Specifically, in the FDA’s review for approval, the agency analyzed effectiveness data from approximately 20,000 vaccine and 20,000 placebo recipients ages 16 and older who did not have evidence of the COVID-19 virus infection within a week of receiving the second dose. The safety of Comirnaty was evaluated in approximately 22,000 people who received the vaccine and 22,000 people who received a placebo 16 years of age and older.
Based on results from the clinical trial, the vaccine was 91% effective in preventing COVID-19 disease.
No matter how many singular examples of cherry-picked quotes you find, you're always going to be left going back to shitting on the FDA.
Maybe you should stick to that. It plays well with this crowd.
Posted on 8/30/21 at 6:26 pm to Blue_Rocky
quote:
the best he can do is find a quote that he likes and run with it
That's quite literally all that any of you have done.
Posted on 8/30/21 at 6:35 pm to JayWhite
quote:This is quite literally false. So now, on top of you having nothing, apparently, you have to lie. Which is fine. Everyone is capable of looking at this thread and seeing that you're lying. I'm happy to stand on the posts I provided as evidence.
That's quite literally all that any of you have done.
I mean just LOL. I quite literally haven't quoted a SOUL from any study. Not one word.
This post was edited on 8/30/21 at 6:37 pm
Posted on 8/30/21 at 6:39 pm to League Champs
quote:
League Champs
What's funny, is that for all your antivax bullshite, you came crawling back to an expert who recommends vaccination when it's convenient.
fricking clown.
Posted on 8/30/21 at 6:42 pm to Blue_Rocky
quote:
This is quite literally false. So now, on top of you having nothing, apparently, you have to lie. Which is fine. Everyone is capable of looking at this thread and seeing that you're lying. I'm happy to stand on the posts I provided as evidence.
I mean just LOL. I quite literally haven't quoted a SOUL from any study. Not one word.
You think "nuh uh, not me" is something? Well, no, not if you understand words.
You've actually been worse because you've done nothing at all. You're a sideshow.
Posted on 8/30/21 at 6:53 pm to JayWhite
quote:
You think "nuh uh, not me" is something? Well, no, not if you understand words.
You've actually been worse because you've done nothing at all. You're a sideshow.
Your white flag is accepted.
I'll happily stand pat. I actually provided data AND my take on that data as I understood it. And now, it is horribly apparent why you made no actual attempt to respond. You don't even understand the data YOU provided!
Everyone else. Feel free to go back thru this thread. My posts speak for themselves. If any of you find the boot I left up Jay's arse back there, please return it to me.
Posted on 8/30/21 at 6:56 pm to Blue_Rocky
quote:
Your white flag is accepted.
This is so boring.
I've offered multiple times to reengage with you (speaking of going back through the thread).
I don't think my request that you not omit data was unreasonable. You do. That's fine, but if you're unwilling to examine complete data, there isn't much left to discuss.
Posted on 8/30/21 at 6:57 pm to Blue_Rocky
quote:
Blue_Rocky
I mean, come on my man.
This is fricking r/politics behavior.
Be better.
Posted on 8/30/21 at 7:02 pm to JayWhite
quote:Nothing is preventing you from going back to any of the data and arguments I've made........which you said I demonstrated a lack of understanding of my data......and spelling out this so called lack of understanding. I'll happily engage. Alas, I ALREADY engaged and you did nothing but hand wave. So, the move is yours, not mine.
I've offered multiple times to reengage with you (speaking of going back through the thread).
quote:It was a false request because I didn't "omit" any data. If you feel I have, spell it out. This isn't a fricking shell game.
I don't think my request that you not omit data was unreasonable.
quote:You mean the "complete" date you never responded with? I ain't Kreskin man. Get to it.
That's fine, but if you're unwilling to examine complete data
Posted on 8/30/21 at 7:04 pm to JayWhite
quote:I wouldn't have any idea cause I don't frequent r/politics
This is fricking r/politics behavior.
But, from what I gatehr........hand waving REPEATEDLY while saying "bad data" REPEATEDLY while NEVER articulating your understanding of why it's bad.......how it's bad........or providing rebuttal data............seems to fit the r/politics bill.
I am exceedingly happy to discuss any data you provide WITH YOUR understanding of that data and why you think it matters re: anything I've provided.
I gave you like 5 pages to do it. I'm not psychic.
Posted on 8/30/21 at 7:08 pm to Blue_Rocky
quote:
Nothing is preventing you from going back to any of the data
There's plenty stopping me. There's certainly a lack of desire to do so.
You've shown an unwillingness to engage in honest discussion. All you need to do is provide and honest, complete understanding of the data you attempted to reference.
Shouldn't be difficult.
Your move.
quote:
I didn't "omit" any data.
Yes, you did.
quote:
You mean the "complete" date you never responded with?
Why the frick would I be the one to provide the data to prove your point?
This post was edited on 8/30/21 at 7:10 pm
Posted on 8/30/21 at 7:09 pm to Blue_Rocky
quote:
I wouldn't have any idea cause I don't frequent r/politics
You should. You'd do well there.
Posted on 8/30/21 at 7:11 pm to JayWhite
quote:Well then, don't complain when it's pointed out that you never did.
There's plenty stopping me. There's certainly a lack of desire to do so.
quote:Again, you say it's incomplete........but never say how........never say what's missing........never say how it matters.
You've shown an unwillingness to engage in honest discussion. All you need to do is provide and honest, complete understanding of the data you attempted to reference.
That's not an "honest" discussion.
quote:Then, articulate what was left out. That's how CONVERSATIONS work.
I didn't "omit" any data.
Yes, you did.
quote:Good God. Seriously?
Why the frick you I be the one to provide the data to prove your point?
So. TO summarize.
Blue: Here's data that supports X
Jay: That's not compolete
Blue: How so?
Jay: It just isn't
Blue: I haven't left anything out intentionally. If you think something is missing, say what it is
Jay: It's just incomplete
Gimme a frickin break. That's just stupid on steroids.
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