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Message
re: OH Snap, UN passes resolution to end Israeli settlements; US abstains
Posted on 12/24/16 at 12:03 am to SlowFlowPro
Posted on 12/24/16 at 12:03 am to SlowFlowPro
This has been a long time coming, but the Obama administration has previously been unable to allow the SC to do its job properly for fear of having its entire domestic agenda blocked by the Israeli lobby and its benefactors in Congress.
Israel has been in clear violation of international law regarding these settlements and deserves the condemnation of the international community and the consequences that will come of it. Moreover, as a SC measure, this resolution will be binding and have consequences if the Israeli regime continues to flaunt the norms of human rights within Palestinian territories.
Israel has been in clear violation of international law regarding these settlements and deserves the condemnation of the international community and the consequences that will come of it. Moreover, as a SC measure, this resolution will be binding and have consequences if the Israeli regime continues to flaunt the norms of human rights within Palestinian territories.
1
Posted on 12/24/16 at 12:05 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
but we didn't vote for the resolution, either
Ask Russia (RE: Korean conflict) what an abstention means.
Posted on 12/24/16 at 12:12 am to GeauxLSUGeaux
quote:
That would be like Mexico and Canada saying we can't build condos in El Paso because they have a lot of Mexican immigrants there. It's stupid idiotic liberal logic. Why do you give a f*ck about what's israel does anyway?
No. It would be like Mexico taking back parts of the Southwest after a particularly brutal war in which both sides commit shameful atrocities. Then denying the conquered people basic opportunities, like education, employment, freedom of movement, and democratic representation to air their grievances. Finally, it would entail forcibly removing (i.e. ethnically cleansing) the people that have lived there for countless generations to make way for Mexican citizens with the most radical and nationalistic political views. If you didn't like it, your new, dilapidated neighborhood would be visited by one of the most well-funded and armed militaries in the world.
That's what it would be like.
Posted on 12/24/16 at 12:16 am to larry289
quote:
Says the guy supporting Hesbalah lobbing rockets into Israel on a daily basis.
If you're going for the non sequitur, you should at least learn to spell.
Posted on 12/24/16 at 12:54 am to TigerPride10
Israel is a complete a-hole
Obama is still a raging pussy for not just ordering the Yes vote and slipping this in 2 weeks before Trump is president. foreign policy under Obama has been a disaster and this is just icing on the cake for his petulant whining
it's just like Obama bitching about potential Russian interference in our election when he blatantly interfered with Israel's election. i'm not defending Irasel, just being critical of how Obama handled this.
Obama is still a raging pussy for not just ordering the Yes vote and slipping this in 2 weeks before Trump is president. foreign policy under Obama has been a disaster and this is just icing on the cake for his petulant whining
it's just like Obama bitching about potential Russian interference in our election when he blatantly interfered with Israel's election. i'm not defending Irasel, just being critical of how Obama handled this.
Posted on 12/24/16 at 12:58 am to TigerPride10
quote:
It would be like Mexico taking back parts of the Southwest after a particularly brutal war in which both sides commit shameful atrocities
then it would be Mexico's land and not American land
quote:
Finally, it would entail forcibly removing (i.e. ethnically cleansing) the people that have lived there for countless generations to make way for Mexican citizens with the most radical and nationalistic political views.
this statement is actually kind of ironic
i mean it's not a "nice" way to put it, but Palestine lost their land
i get that it's the Middle Eastern way to ignore what land they've lost, act like they still have a clam to land, and engage in crazy wars constantly to keep these conflicts alive, but that particular brand of insanity should be disfavored given our current international climate
This post was edited on 12/24/16 at 12:59 am
Posted on 12/24/16 at 1:31 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
then it would be Mexico's land and not American land
Great, but we can agree that the Americans who have lived there should be allowed to, you know, keep on living.
quote:
get that it's the Middle Eastern way to ignore what land they've lost, act like they still have a clam to land, and engage in crazy wars constantly to keep these conflicts alive
Yes, this is totally just a Middle Eastern thing.
quote:
but that particular brand of insanity should be disfavored given our current international climate
People in the region -- be they Arabs or Israelis -- have a right to live in peace. If Israel truly wanted peace, it would work to find a solution that kept that in mind. The settlements prevent a resolution to the conflict and are also illegal under the framework of international law.
Posted on 12/24/16 at 1:43 am to TigerPride10
quote:
but we can agree that the Americans who have lived there should be allowed to, you know, keep on living.
not if it's now Mexico's land. then they get to make the rules
quote:
Yes, this is totally just a Middle Eastern thing.
outside of Africa, that's probably about 90%+ of these conflicts worldwide
quote:
People in the region -- be they Arabs or Israelis -- have a right to live in peace. If Israel truly wanted peace, it would work to find a solution that kept that in mind.
the problem with this particular conflict is that the Palestinians act like they deserve equal treatment and bargaining when they don't. does that make people feel warm and cozy? no, but that's reality. until Palestine accepts that they should be grateful for whatever they receive in negotiations, there won't be peace. the international community feeling bad just makes that solution more difficult
Posted on 12/24/16 at 1:44 am to TigerPride10
quote:
People in the region -- be they Arabs or Israelis -- have a right to live in peace. If Israel truly wanted peace, it would work to find a solution that kept that in mind. The settlements prevent a resolution to the conflict and are also illegal under the framework of international law.
This X eleventy billion.
And they will never stop this as long as their backup is the biggest bully on the block
Posted on 12/24/16 at 1:49 am to Socratics
What would you have thought if the leaders of Yemen, Jordan, Egypt, etc had opposed the US establishing "settlements" in Indian lands from 1780-1906? Looks to me like Israel won those lands fair and square by force of arms. When does occupied Palestine simply become Israel much the way all the land west of the Mississippi became United States territory?
Posted on 12/24/16 at 1:54 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
If Israel truly wanted peace, it would work to find a solution that kept that in mind.
and
quote:
Palestine accepts that they should be grateful for whatever they receive in negotiations
are not mutually exclusive ideas.
Posted on 12/24/16 at 1:57 am to SoFla Tideroller
quote:
What would you have thought if the leaders of Yemen, Jordan, Egypt, etc had opposed the US establishing "settlements" in Indian lands from 1780-1906? Looks to me like Israel won those lands fair and square by force of arms. When does occupied Palestine simply become Israel much the way all the land west of the Mississippi became United States territory?
The entire premise of US foreign policy is maintaining the status quo of international boundaries and has been for decades.
Do you want to abandon this approach entirely or in this case only?
Posted on 12/24/16 at 2:08 am to cave canem
Please point out where the country of Palestine existed? Or exists to this day? What international borders are we recognizing as it pertains to the Palestinians? Prior to 1967 I didn't notice any international pressure on Egypt to create a nation of Palestine out of what used to be called the Gaza Strip.
Posted on 12/24/16 at 2:19 am to GeauxLSUGeaux
quote:
It's f*cking Israel, if they want to build condos wherever then they can because that's their land. That would be like Mexico and Canada saying we can't build condos in El Paso because they have a lot of Mexican immigrants there. It's stupid idiotic liberal logic.
^^^^^^
Doesn't have a fricking clue what the entire conflict is about. I am SHOCKED. absolutely flabbergasted.
quote:
Why do you give a f*ck about what's israel does anyway?
lulz.
Posted on 12/24/16 at 2:22 am to TigerPride10
quote:
No. It would be like Mexico taking back parts of the Southwest after a particularly brutal war in which both sides commit shameful atrocities. Then denying the conquered people basic opportunities, like education, employment, freedom of movement, and democratic representation to air their grievances. Finally, it would entail forcibly removing (i.e. ethnically cleansing) the people that have lived there for countless generations to make way for Mexican citizens with the most radical and nationalistic political views. If you didn't like it, your new, dilapidated neighborhood would be visited by one of the most well-funded and armed militaries in the world.
That's what it would be like.
Good thing the US isn't giving money and guns to these people. Sounds like that might be a liability.
Posted on 12/24/16 at 2:23 am to SoFla Tideroller
quote:
Please point out where the country of Palestine existed? Or exists to this day? What international borders are we recognizing as it pertains to the Palestinians? Prior to 1967 I didn't notice any international pressure on Egypt to create a nation of Palestine out of what used to be called the Gaza Strip
That's because we hate jews man.
Posted on 12/24/16 at 2:25 am to SoFla Tideroller
quote:
What would you have thought if the leaders of Yemen, Jordan, Egypt, etc had opposed the US establishing "settlements" in Indian lands from 1780-1906? Looks to me like Israel won those lands fair and square by force of arms. When does occupied Palestine simply become Israel much the way all the land west of the Mississippi became United States territory?
lulz.
Posted on 12/24/16 at 2:34 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
this statement is actually kind of ironic
i mean it's not a "nice" way to put it, but Palestine lost their land
The issue is that Israel claims that everyone is subject to Israeli law, but that only Palestinian arabs (Christian and Muslim) must abandon their property so that Jews can move onto the property. Either Israel treats everyone uniformly under the law or they don't. Either its one nation if Israel or it isn't. Either the land belongs to Arab Israelis and this is ethnic cleansing through violent eminent domain or this land wasn't "conquered" to begin with and Israel is fighting a war for territory. We cant have all of these things at once.
The biggest issue relevant to Americans is that we suffer the blowback of supporting this Israeli/Palestinian conflict through money to both sides and arms to the Israeli side.
Posted on 12/24/16 at 2:35 am to MrCarton
You misunderstand. I don't think we should necessarily be shoveling billions of dollars to Israel on the taxpayer's dime. But, I also don't think we should necessarily care what Israel does with land they conquered. Especially in consideration of creating a nation that never existed before for a people the world community didn't gave a shite about prior to Israel conquering that land.
Posted on 12/24/16 at 2:37 am to SoFla Tideroller
quote:
You misunderstand. I don't think we should necessarily be shoveling billions of dollars to Israel on the taxpayer's dime. But, I also don't think we should necessarily care what Israel does with land they conquered.
1. If the government is giving them our money, we should care what they do with it. ESPECIALLY considering the blowback that has been associated with this aid.
2. If this is Israeli conquered land then these Palestinians have been Israeli for 50 years and this is ethnic cleansing through a violent eminent domain program.
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