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Started By
Message
re: President's Authority to Declassify Does Not Extend to Nukes
Posted on 8/13/22 at 10:07 am to AUstar
Posted on 8/13/22 at 10:07 am to AUstar
Article and Section, please!
I wasn't aware the Atomic Energy Act of 1948 TRUMPED the US Constitution.
quote:
This is the current talking point. Atlantic just published an article about it. They are arguing that the Atomic Energy Act of 1948 gives sole classification authority (concerning nukes) to DOE and the president cannot override it. This is what they will try to "get Trump" on.
I wasn't aware the Atomic Energy Act of 1948 TRUMPED the US Constitution.
2
Posted on 8/13/22 at 10:09 am to 850SaintsGator
quote:
was referencing the OP and the written clip they posted …. The clip talked about nuke secrets and the OP just blipped over that part- But nice melty melt by being triggered over a perceived TDS post
What the OP is emphasizing, is that the media is just throwing out “we got trump” news without any facts and cucks like you just keep falling for it
Posted on 8/13/22 at 10:09 am to Houag80
The saddest part about all of this is that a solution is right under our feet. That is, oil, natural gas and coal. Enough of it to last us and perhaps the world 400 - 500 years.
Posted on 8/13/22 at 10:46 am to 850SaintsGator
quote:
It’s funny bc this site routinely calls me liberal, commie , Marxist lol but damn …I’m just your average Repub who just happens to not like Trump
What policy decisions did Trump make to make you feel that way? Or is your dislike of him because of his stupid tweets?
Posted on 8/13/22 at 10:51 am to ChapelHillSooner
quote:
He intentionally hid some in a safe which the feds were not even aware existed until the informant told them about it.
You mean the invisible documents? Because the safe was empty.
Posted on 8/13/22 at 11:07 am to 850SaintsGator
quote:
Ummm we just speeding past the “ wtf does he have nuke secrets” part??? Umm why does he have them..classified or not???
Ummmmm, we’re just going to believe he had nuke secrets because CNN told you he did?
Posted on 8/13/22 at 11:09 am to 850SaintsGator
quote:
Ummm we just speeding past the “ wtf does he have nuke secrets” part??? Umm why does he have them..classified or not???
Imagine thinking he has them. Fools.
Posted on 8/13/22 at 11:17 am to oman
quote:
It stands for the proposition that the Executive's decision to "classify" is broad. It doesn't address declassification.
Not exactly.
What it says is that the Constitution invests the Office of the President with the authority for classifications and that the President can delegate such authority. It does not declare that delegating such authority is to abdicate it, nor does it set declassification as a separate event from classification.
So what's more plausible here?
1. The Constitution gives the Office of the President ultimate authority on classifying and declassifying information (as has been the precedent for generations)
2. The Constitution gives the Office of the President ultimate authority in only classifying information, but declassifying information is a separate event that the Constitution places outside the authority of the President but somehow within the authority of his subordinates
Going with anything other than the first option strains history, precedence and every understanding of the very beginning of Article II:
quote:
The executive power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America.
This means all power to agencies under the executive branch flows from the Office of the President. There's simply no room to quibble.
quote:
the protection of classified information must be committed to the broad discretion of the agency responsible, and this must include broad discretion to determine who may have access to it. Certainly, it is not reasonably possible for an outside nonexpert body to review the substance of such a judgment and to decide whether the agency should have been able to make the necessary affirmative prediction with confidence. Nor can such a body determine what constitutes an acceptable margin of error in assessing the potential risk.
Sims wasn't determining Presidential authority, nor even discussing it. Sims determined that an agency gets to define what it deems as "intelligence sources" against the desires of other agencies (this was in regards to a FOIA request regarding MKULTRA). To put it another way, the authority from the President flows down to subordinate agencies, this was a decision about lateral authority between those agencies.
This decision was issued in 1985 while Egan was issued in 1988, so even if it said what you think it says, it was then over-ruled by Egan.
Since Sims doesn't speak on Presidential authority, we look at what the two say together and that is that while agencies have wide latitude in determining what they consider to be classified information, one agency cannot declassify what a sister agency has classified (ostensibly, without its permission) BUT the Office of the President can since their authority to classify/de-classify originates from (but is not abdicated by) the Office of the President.
Essentially, it's no different than a company's IT department head not being able to suddenly change the marketing department's ad campaign but the president of the company being able to do so.
Posted on 8/13/22 at 11:27 am to Tchefuncte Tiger
quote:
I wasn't aware the Atomic Energy Act of 1948 TRUMPED the US Constitution
Please explain.
Is it due to the commander in chief powers?
Who is to say classification is completely within the realm of the military? I don't think it is.
Is it due to the head of the executive power? If so, that would open up a big can of worms.
Posted on 8/13/22 at 11:29 am to ChapelHillSooner
To all of the people who support the argument that the documents are declassified, I have some questions.
1. Do you support Trump's decision to declassify all of these documents or do you think it was irresponsible?
2. If you support the decision, will you support all of the documents being released in their entirety without redactions?
3. If the answer to #2 is no, then why not?
1. Do you support Trump's decision to declassify all of these documents or do you think it was irresponsible?
2. If you support the decision, will you support all of the documents being released in their entirety without redactions?
3. If the answer to #2 is no, then why not?
This post was edited on 8/13/22 at 11:30 am
Posted on 8/13/22 at 12:06 pm to alphaandomega
quote:
What policy decisions did Trump make to make you feel that way? Or is your dislike of him because of his stupid tweets?
This is essentially what I was going to ask. And it’s a sincere question, not a setup. If your choice was truly a weighty and difficult vote of conscience (and I have no foundation from which to claim it wasn’t), then I’m interested to know which events in Trump’s first term confirmed your image of him as so morally bankrupt as to be dangerous/destructive to specific American institutions.
On the other side of the coin, I’m genuinely curious as to whether you did an equally thorough examination of Joe Biden’s character in the process, and how you weighed what you discovered against the words or actions you found so objectionable coming from Trump.
Posted on 8/13/22 at 12:14 pm to DeepBlueSea
On the classified documents. From the NY Times.
Couple of points:
1. Many people here have asked why the government let Trump sit on these supposedly highly sensitive documents for so long, well, this makes it clear that they were told as late as June that all the documents have been turned over.
2. Someone is going to prison. Unless Trump intentionally withheld information from that attorney, the attorney's days as a free man are limited. If Trump did withhold information from his attorney and allowed his attorney to sign the document, then he is in some serious legal jeopardy.
3. Finally, you can attack the source but ultimately the government either has the signed document or they do not. This fact will be revealed. So keep that in mind before you just reflexively dismiss the NY Times reporting.
quote:
At least one lawyer for former President Donald J. Trump signed a written statement in June asserting that all material marked as classified and held in boxes in a storage area at Mr. Trump’s Mar-a-Lago residence and club had been returned to the government, four people with knowledge of the document said.
Couple of points:
1. Many people here have asked why the government let Trump sit on these supposedly highly sensitive documents for so long, well, this makes it clear that they were told as late as June that all the documents have been turned over.
2. Someone is going to prison. Unless Trump intentionally withheld information from that attorney, the attorney's days as a free man are limited. If Trump did withhold information from his attorney and allowed his attorney to sign the document, then he is in some serious legal jeopardy.
3. Finally, you can attack the source but ultimately the government either has the signed document or they do not. This fact will be revealed. So keep that in mind before you just reflexively dismiss the NY Times reporting.
This post was edited on 8/13/22 at 12:17 pm
Posted on 8/13/22 at 12:17 pm to ChapelHillSooner
. You got him this time.
Posted on 8/13/22 at 12:19 pm to upgrayedd
quote:
I love how, with absolutely no confirmation whatsoever, the media has decided that the nuke rumor is true to the point where they're discussing the nuances of a nuke-related prosecution against Trump
Basically applies to every we got him now Trump story ever.
Posted on 8/13/22 at 12:22 pm to TDTOM
quote:
You got him this time.
If the reporting is true, someone committed a crime. You can't sarcastically dismiss this for too long because charges will be filed.
As for the argument we finally got him, I'm not sure who "him" is as the crime I listed could fall entirely on the attorney. In either case, this isn't a witch hunt. It is something easily avoided. Turn over the documents the government requested. Don't lie to the FBI. Don't sign documents asserting something is true that is not true.
This post was edited on 8/13/22 at 12:24 pm
Posted on 8/13/22 at 12:27 pm to ChapelHillSooner
Keep hope alive man.
Posted on 8/13/22 at 12:27 pm to Strannix
quote:
I love how, with absolutely no confirmation whatsoever, the media has decided that the nuke rumor is true to the point where they're discussing the nuances of a nuke-related prosecution against Trump
Trump tweeted that Obama probably also has nuclear documents.
Read between the lines. With just a bit of common sense you can conclude that this is an implied admission from Trump.
If someone said I had cocaine in my car and I know I didn't, the last thing I would say is, "Well, Jimmy also had cocaine in his car."
Edit: Truth Social not Tweet but you all get my point.
This post was edited on 8/13/22 at 12:33 pm
Posted on 8/13/22 at 12:29 pm to Tchefuncte Tiger
quote:
wasn't aware the Atomic Energy Act of 1948 TRUMPED the US Constitution.
upon appeal justice Thomas will decide.
Posted on 8/13/22 at 12:30 pm to AUstar
My own thoughts: I’ve never “liked” DJT or thought of him as someone to emulate, even going back decades prior to his term as POTUS. I still don’t, really.
The difference is that in my mind, those are completely separate issues from what I think it takes to lead a country — a country that was suddenly allowing far more Americans to prosper and live in peace than at anytime in the last 15 years. If my choices are a brash, arrogant a-hole with a pretty good track record vs. a more “Presidential” a-hole with at best a mediocre track record, I truly don’t understand how the second option can be the logically or rationally superior one. There has to be some other factor at work.
Exhibit A of that other factor would be trash articles like this one from the Atlantic, that want to arrive at some dramatic, breathlessly righteous OMB conclusion, but can’t even get the basic facts necessary to support that premise correct.
These idiot propagandists don’t realize that this is exactly the kind of heavy-handed bullshite that actively pushed me (and more than a handful of others) away from their side and eventually led to my pulling the lever for Trump in 2020. It’s something I never thought I’d even consider doing before that, but they get further over the line ever day and just can’t seem to stop themselves even as their pool of lapdogs slowly but steadily dwindles.
Hell, he’s been out of office for more than a year and a half and his name STILL dominates almost every news cycle. They have to cling desperately to their narrative because they have little to no currency without it. They know it, and I think in a way they they hate him all the more for it.
As much as articles like this still wield extraordinary and undeserved power over a significant portion of the populace, I believe they nonetheless represent the early death throes of the MSM.
The difference is that in my mind, those are completely separate issues from what I think it takes to lead a country — a country that was suddenly allowing far more Americans to prosper and live in peace than at anytime in the last 15 years. If my choices are a brash, arrogant a-hole with a pretty good track record vs. a more “Presidential” a-hole with at best a mediocre track record, I truly don’t understand how the second option can be the logically or rationally superior one. There has to be some other factor at work.
Exhibit A of that other factor would be trash articles like this one from the Atlantic, that want to arrive at some dramatic, breathlessly righteous OMB conclusion, but can’t even get the basic facts necessary to support that premise correct.
These idiot propagandists don’t realize that this is exactly the kind of heavy-handed bullshite that actively pushed me (and more than a handful of others) away from their side and eventually led to my pulling the lever for Trump in 2020. It’s something I never thought I’d even consider doing before that, but they get further over the line ever day and just can’t seem to stop themselves even as their pool of lapdogs slowly but steadily dwindles.
Hell, he’s been out of office for more than a year and a half and his name STILL dominates almost every news cycle. They have to cling desperately to their narrative because they have little to no currency without it. They know it, and I think in a way they they hate him all the more for it.
As much as articles like this still wield extraordinary and undeserved power over a significant portion of the populace, I believe they nonetheless represent the early death throes of the MSM.
Posted on 8/13/22 at 12:40 pm to ChapelHillSooner
quote:
ChapelHillSooner
Cuck
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