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Started By
Message
re: Run 2.23 for Arbery #werunwitharbery
Posted on 2/24/21 at 3:05 pm to AggieHank86
Posted on 2/24/21 at 3:05 pm to AggieHank86
quote:
In that post, I was specifically responding to your observations as to when "window shopping" is appropriate. My post was not specific to Arbery.
Well, you were responding to your BFF mouton, about my post...AGAIN. A hint, you can respond directly to me, by hitting the "reply" button directly under my post.
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Posted on 2/24/21 at 3:07 pm to Dawgfan247
quote:
However, of all the cases, this one actually looks like racism.
Does it? Why? It looks like stupidity, but i'm not sure race comes into play. Before anyone gets incredulous, i only paid attention to this case the few days when it first happened. So if there is new info out, i'm all ears.
Posted on 2/24/21 at 3:07 pm to mouton
quote:Well, you live in Georgia, so all the statutes cited above apply to you.
When my wife and I have walked through homes under construction were we "window shopping" or "breaking into construction sites?"
You did NOT commit a burglary, because you did not enter the property with felonious intent.
You did NOT commit a trespass, so long as you left when requested and did not enter after having been warned to stay out.
Georgia does NOT have a "breaking and entering" statute.
I reckon that leaves "window shopping."
Posted on 2/24/21 at 3:08 pm to AggieHank86
quote:Sure. We're certainly in disagreement on many of these things, but you're right - I enjoy fruitful banter.
I am going to act on the assumption that you are actually trying to engage in rational discussion ... unlike some posters I could mention.
quote:Agreed.
This appears to be a accurate summary.
quote:I read a LAT article that said the same, but at the time of the shooting he was unemployed and not in school.
The reporting seems to indicate that he was enrolled to begin training as an electrician in the upcoming semester. But I acknowledge that reporters seldom get these facts correct. He could well have just told someone that he planned to do so.
quote:Correct on the latter. I thought I made that clear with the "area placed upon a property" bit, but sometimes context gets washed out on message boards.
I hope you are not implying that this kid had no legal right to be present in that neighborhood, and I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you mean only the partially-complete house that he clearly DID enter.
I will admit that I was unaware of the owner and his alleged agreement with AA.
However...
I still think (in a chicken vs. the egg scenario) this whole affair is a result of poor choices on AA's part.
I've seen people claim that you are or were an attorney, and you certainly seem knowledgeable regarding juris prudence, so I have to ask a hypothetical: what if AA, being thirsty, created a puddle on some finished concrete upon which he slipped and fractured his skull. Would the builder or homeowner bear some (if not all) liability?
That's at the core of my position, which is that a person ought not be where a person ought not be.
Taking that a step further, and me now being involved in the commercial construction industry, I have a hard believing that in today's litigious environment a builder is going to be okay with someone goofing around in an area containing any manner of hazard you may find a job site - rusty nails, uneven walking surfaces, potentially live and unsecured wiring, spent rusted razor blades, etc.
But again, at the core of my position is my belief that a person ought not be where they ought not be. He wasn't an employee, he wasn't a potential buyer, and I'm not buying some ersatz agreement he had with the builder.
Posted on 2/24/21 at 3:09 pm to BugAC
I dont think they would ride around with shotguns over a white dude going into a construction site. I think race played a role, but these dudes were complete idiots even if it wasnt.
Posted on 2/24/21 at 3:10 pm to JohnnyKilroy
quote:
Which was his legal right to do.
Show me in the law where it says you can take someone else's gun? Then show me where that is the best thing to do? I'll wait for both.
Posted on 2/24/21 at 3:10 pm to AggieHank86
quote:
Well, you live in Georgia, so all the statutes cited above apply to you.
You did NOT commit a burglary, because you did not enter the property with felonious intent.
You did NOT commit a trespass, so long as you left when requested and did not enter after having been warned to stay out.
Georgia does NOT have a "breaking and entering" statute.
I reckon that leaves "window shopping."
Don't think you are correct there, Hank.
LINK
also
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Posted on 2/24/21 at 3:11 pm to Dawgfan247
quote:
I dont think they would ride around with shotguns over a white dude going into a construction site.
Did they know the guy's race when they got in the truck? Or did they learn that when they ran into the guy? Im asking, i don't know the entire situation.
Posted on 2/24/21 at 3:13 pm to mouton
quote:I would ask you to define "normal people."
Be honest do you think it is uncommon for normal people to walk through homes under construction and check out the progress?
My wife and I who are professionals and capable of purchasing a home? Sure.
You or Hank or any number of others who maybe engaged in the same? Sure.
An unemployed person with no prospects and no right to be there? That's where you and I begin to separate.
Let me change the terms of your example. If I come home and see my mom or the next door neighbor's kid or one of my nieces in my yard, that would be "normal." Some random guy drinking out of my hose will be approached in a manner far different from the other others.
Why do you think I might feel that way? Because he - to use your term - is not a "normal person" in the context of that scenario.
This post was edited on 2/24/21 at 3:18 pm
Posted on 2/24/21 at 3:14 pm to BugAC
Can you answer my question? Were me and my wife window shopping or breaking into a construction site? Thanks!
Posted on 2/24/21 at 3:14 pm to NawlinsTiger9
quote:
apparently that guy thinks that people who defend themselves from assault are at fault when they are murdered
First of all, there's no evidence that he was trying to "defend" himself. Second, the two dudes in the car have every right under Georgia law to make a citizens arrest and detain the individual until the police arrive. None of that is in question by smart people here. But everyone with common sense knows you don't try and take a persons shotgun away from them, barrel first. If you assume the two dudes in the car were in the wrong (which is just your assumption at this point), that still doesn't give the guy the right to steal someone else's gun from them.
Posted on 2/24/21 at 3:15 pm to mouton
quote:
Can you answer my question? Were me and my wife window shopping or breaking into a construction site? Thanks!
I'm not following your every post, Mouton. I'm here to annoy Hank (which i'm doing a great job), you are inconsequential to my goals. What are you blabbering about?
Posted on 2/24/21 at 3:16 pm to BugAC
The guy who recorded it said one of the shooters used the N-word about Arbery after he shot him
Posted on 2/24/21 at 3:16 pm to 1BIGTigerFan
quote:
Second, the two dudes in the car have every right under Georgia law to make a citizens arrest and detain the individual until the police arrive
False.
Posted on 2/24/21 at 3:16 pm to Abraham H Parnassis
quote:To clarify, I don't know of any express "agreement." It appears that the owner was aware of Arbery's water stops and acquiesced (did not object) to them.
I was unaware of the owner and his alleged agreement with AA.
quote:Interesting question. Probably not.
what if AA, being thirsty, created a puddle on some finished concrete upon which he slipped and fractured his skull. Would the builder or homeowner bear some (if not all) liability?
quote:I tend to agree. I personally would not take my water breaks this way. But that is between Arbery and the property owner.
That's at the core of my position, which is that a person ought not be where a person ought not be.
McMichael and his merry band of gun-toting rednecks are another question entirely. McMichael was the victim of a theft some days earlier. He did not see the offender at the time of that theft. On the day of the shooting, they did not see Arbery on the construction site. They simply saw a (Black) stranger running through "their" neighborhood and decided to chase him down several streets, point firearms at him and attempt to take him into custody ... when they had witnessed NO CRIME whatsoever.
Posted on 2/24/21 at 3:16 pm to mouton
quote:
I said "breaking into"
How does walking into an open construction site equal "breaking into?"
When Trump said Obama had tapped his phone, you libs were all laughing because "no one" taps phone's anymore. The problem is, you knew what he was talking about, even if it wasn't the exact, correct, terminology. Same here.
Posted on 2/24/21 at 3:17 pm to BugAC
quote:
What are you blabbering about?
You quoted my question bro.
Posted on 2/24/21 at 3:18 pm to Dawgfan247
quote:
The guy who recorded it said one of the shooters used the N-word about Arbery after he shot him
Has this come out as fact, or hereasay? And again, did the 2 gather guns and their trucks knowing the race of Arbery? The legal beagle's here can inform you of intent in regards to a hate crime. Is this being prosecuted as a hate crime?
Posted on 2/24/21 at 3:19 pm to mouton
quote:
You quoted my question bro.
WHen? I may have, i don't remember. If you want me to answer your question, ask it again. I've been replying to hank who's been replying to your posts about me, so forgive me if i don't recall what you are referring to.
Posted on 2/24/21 at 3:21 pm to BugAC
We didnt have a hate crime law at the time, so I dont believe so. Kemp signed one into law last year sometime after the Arbery death
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