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Started By
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re: Run 2.23 for Arbery #werunwitharbery
Posted on 2/24/21 at 3:37 pm to AggieHank86
Posted on 2/24/21 at 3:37 pm to AggieHank86
quote:According to you he had an agreement to be in that home and drink that water. Sounds like an invitee.
I don't see Arbery qualifying as an invitee, and I doubt that a water spigot qualifies as an attractive nuisance, but I am certainly not a tort lawyer in Georgia. In any case, that issue is WAY off point.
quote:That does tend to happen.
I thought it was hilarious, but some did seem to take it seriously.
Since this thread is about half flaming and half trolling, can I ask if you were an attorney and, if so, would you be willing to answer a totally unrelated question for me I've had for a while?
1
Posted on 2/24/21 at 3:38 pm to 1BIGTigerFan
quote:Georgia law does NOT allow a citizens arrest when a citizen SUSPECTS someone of a crime. Only when they SEE a crime committed.
Because it's not a law, or because the two guys in the truck had no reason to suspect Aubrey of a crime?
Let's say Georgia law prohibits fornicating with goats. You cannot walk next door and attempt to arrest your neighbor because you THINK he fricks goats. You must see him in the act of capra coitu.
This post was edited on 2/24/21 at 3:46 pm
Posted on 2/24/21 at 3:39 pm to mouton
quote:
When my wife and I have walked through homes under construction were we "window shopping" or "breaking into construction sites?
Depends on your intent. Where you window shopping? Or were you casing the place?
Was Arbery window shopping or casing the place? You, nor I know exactly. What we do know, is that multiple sites were robbed in that same area, unless those reports are not accurate. We won't know intent because Arbery was shot.
But no, i am not changing my statement to, "breaking in" to "trespassing", as i've learned B&E is not a statute in GA law, but criminal trespass is. And yes, you and your wife, are technically trespassing/breaking and entering, if you enter an unfinished home without permission, according to whatever state you reside in. Whether or not cops are called on you is up to the owner and dependent on the neighborhood, residents.
Posted on 2/24/21 at 3:40 pm to Abraham H Parnassis
quote:It would make ZERO difference, because the McMichael posse did not SEE him diddly-bopping on that site. They only SAW him running down the street.
Is it more or less likely that AA would have been shot had he not been diddy-bopping inside that house that day?
I say far less likely. I say that he bears at least a small degree of responsibility for the inciting events that culminated in his death.
Posted on 2/24/21 at 3:41 pm to JohnnyKilroy
quote:I never said they did so...
The McMichaels never saw him inside the unfinished house so...
Care to answer the question?
Posted on 2/24/21 at 3:42 pm to AggieHank86
quote:I agree.
It would make ZERO difference, because the McMichael posse did not SEE him diddly-bopping on that site. They only SAW him running down the street.
But had he not gone where he ought not have gone (not a buyer, not a worker) it seems - to me, anyway - that this whole thing would never have happened.
That's my point.
Posted on 2/24/21 at 3:43 pm to BugAC
quote:
Depends on your intent. Where you window shopping? Or were you casing the place?
Then why did you say multiple times that Aubery broke into a construction site without knowing his intent?
Posted on 2/24/21 at 3:43 pm to Abraham H Parnassis
I can’t say it’s less likely that he’d be dead because him being in the unfinished house had nothing to do with the McMichaels chasing him and ultimately shooting him.
Posted on 2/24/21 at 3:44 pm to Abraham H Parnassis
quote:I did not say that. I said that the owner seemed to acquiesce to Arbery stopping for a drink, because he had seen the video of the stops and did not take steps to prevent future stops. If I were the plaintiff attorney in your hypothetical p.i. case, I would certainly argue that there was an IMPLIED agreement ... but I think I would lose.
According to you he had an agreement to be in that home and drink that water. Sounds like an invitee.
quote:I can try, but I am not licensed in Georgia, so anything I say will just be opinion rather than legal advice. Be forewarned, I will probably bail if it gets too complicated. But maybe I can give you enough info to ask the right questions of a Georgia attorney.
would you be willing to answer a totally unrelated question for me I've had for a while?
This post was edited on 2/24/21 at 3:55 pm
Posted on 2/24/21 at 3:46 pm to Abraham H Parnassis
quote:
But had he not gone where he ought not have gone (not a buyer, not a worker) it seems - to me, anyway - that this whole thing would never have happened.
That's my point.
But why?
Let’s assume he never stops at the unfinished house and keeps on running down the street. Do the McMichaels still chase him? If not, why not? We know they were unaware of his trespass when they chased him.
Posted on 2/24/21 at 3:46 pm to JohnnyKilroy
quote:So you think he was killed simply for jogging don the street? That's it? That's the sum total for the entire situation?
I can’t say it’s less likely that he’d be dead because him being in the unfinished house had nothing to do with the McMichaels chasing him and ultimately shooting him.
Posted on 2/24/21 at 3:50 pm to Abraham H Parnassis
quote:Let's get hypothetical here.quote:I agree.
It would make ZERO difference, because the McMichael posse did not SEE him diddly-bopping on that site. They only SAW him running down the street.
But had he not gone where he ought not have gone (not a buyer, not a worker) it seems - to me, anyway - that this whole thing would never have happened.
That's my point.
Someone else is the neighborhood thief. Arbery is a model citizen and it REALLY just jogging. Hell, let's say he is training for a triathlon.
Someone ELSE stole McMichael's pistol several days earlier, and Arbery is in such good shape that he does not need water breaks.
IMHO, McMichael and his merry band are STILL looking for the pistol thief, they STILL drive up behind Arbery on his training run through the neighborhood, and they STILL chase him through the neighborhood, with firearms at the ready. Regardless of whether he took a water break ... because they never SAW the water break.
This post was edited on 2/24/21 at 3:54 pm
Posted on 2/24/21 at 3:51 pm to Abraham H Parnassis
quote:
So you think he was killed simply for jogging don the street? That's it? That's the sum total for the entire situation?
If it was another black man jogging by that had never entered the construction site all other things equal do you honestly think things would have been different?
Posted on 2/24/21 at 3:57 pm to JohnnyKilroy
quote:
First of all, there's no evidence that he was trying to "defend" himself. Second, the two dudes in the car have every right under Georgia law to make a citizens arrest and detain the individual until the police arrive. None of that is in question by smart people here. But everyone with common sense knows you don't try and take a persons shotgun away from them, barrel first. If you assume the two dudes in the car were in the wrong (which is just your assumption at this point), that still doesn't give the guy the right to steal someone else's gun from them.
All of this is very, very wrong.
lol get that shite out of here. The only acceptable response to aggravated assault by shotgun is to do absolutely nothing and let the aggressors impose their will. what an idiot
Posted on 2/24/21 at 3:57 pm to AggieHank86
quote:I don't want to argue semantics with you. Acquiesce vs. allow...seems the same to me. If you don't object to a person being in your home and drinking water I think it could be argued that they would have invitee status in your home (until it were rescinded).
I did not say that. I said that the owner seemed to acquiesce to Arbery stopping for a drink, because he had seen the video of the stops and did not take steps to prevent future stops. If I were the plaintiff attorney in your hypothetical p.i. case, I would certainly argue that there was an IMPLIED agreement ... but I think I would lose.
quote:More of a rights waiver question. Probably not state-specific.
I can try, but I am not licensed in Georgia, so anything I say will just be opinion rather than legal advice. Be forewarned, I will probably bail if it gets too complicated.
A person can, at any time, waive the protection of the 4th Amendment, correct? "Sure officer, you can search my car" can become "hmm, you know what, I changed my mind. Stop searching." In fact, both departments I worked for required an officer to stand by the detainee in case that happened.
Same applies to Miranda and, ostensibly, any other civil protections I imagine.
Should a person decide to waive their 5th Amendment right against self-incrimination during trial in an attempt (wisely or otherwise) to argue in favor of their defense, could they then invoke that right in an effort to avoid cross?
So if I'm your client and I think I have personal testimony that will swing the case, but under no circumstances would I want to be cross examined, is that allowable and, if so, is there a term for it (or a case you're aware of?
Posted on 2/24/21 at 4:00 pm to Abraham H Parnassis
quote:Not at all. You must assume that SOMEONE had broken into homes in the neighborhood and that SOMEONE had stolen McMichael's pistol from his truck.
So you think he was killed simply for jogging don the street? That's it? That's the sum total for the entire situation?
Regardless of whether Arbery was a good guy or a bad guy, given those OTHER facts, I think the redneck posse would have accosted a scruffy-looking guy running through "their" neighborhood.
Posted on 2/24/21 at 4:00 pm to mouton
quote:Of course I do. I've stated that I think all players involved bear some responsibility (in varying degrees, of course) for what happened.
If it was another black man jogging by that had never entered the construction site all other things equal do you honestly think things would have been different?
I think everyone made poor, poor choices. It cost one man his life and tanked the lives of dozens of others. Perhaps millions if you extrapolate the impact it had in this country and the world.
Posted on 2/24/21 at 4:01 pm to AggieHank86
quote:I hear you. I disagree, but I hear you.
I think the redneck posse would have accosted a scruffy-looking guy running through "their" neighborhood.
Posted on 2/24/21 at 4:02 pm to Abraham H Parnassis
quote:
Of course I do.
But why?
They didn’t know he stopped at the construction site when they chased him. Why would they NOT chase him if he didn’t stop?
Posted on 2/24/21 at 4:03 pm to Abraham H Parnassis
quote:So long as it is an "informed" waiver, that is generally correct.
A person can, at any time, waive the protection of the 4th Amendment, correct? "Sure officer, you can search my car" can become "hmm, you know what, I changed my mind. Stop searching." In fact, both departments I worked for required an officer to stand by the detainee in case that happened.
Same applies to Miranda and, ostensibly, any other civil protections I imagine.
Of course, there are always exceptions.
quote:No. That barn door is open. If you don't want to be subject to cross-examination, stay the Hell off the witness stand.
Should a person decide to waive their 5th Amendment right against self-incrimination during trial in an attempt (wisely or otherwise) to argue in favor of their defense, could they then invoke that right in an effort to avoid cross?
This post was edited on 2/24/21 at 4:06 pm
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