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Message
re: Stacey Abrams claims Bible supports abortion
Posted on 8/28/22 at 8:07 pm to AggieHank86
Posted on 8/28/22 at 8:07 pm to AggieHank86
quote:
Hence “interpretation.”
You did read that part, right?
Yes.
But unless we're talking on the level of one's presuppositions and hermeneutical approach (which I don't think we are or Abrams is), so making the claim that "nothing in the Bible explicitly PROHIBITS abortion" only obscures the fact that Scripture consistently affirms life begins before birth.
Interpretation would be something like in Ephesians 2:8, "For by grace you are having been saved through faith, and this (is) not you; of God the gift." (my wooden translation). So what's the antecedent of "this"? That's open for interpretation. But Scripture is consistent on the life of the unborn.
Curious what she (or you) deems is up for interpretation.
0
Posted on 8/28/22 at 8:24 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:
Why conception? Why not before or after?
Not sure I'm following your question. Before or after what?
My point is that Scripture treats the unborn as an image-bearer of God. Therefore, they have an innate sanctity, dignity, and liberty. The ancient world didn't have the technology to detect heartbeats, etc so there was little opportunity to make pre-birth distinctions in personhood.
For example, in Psalm 139:13, King David writes: "You formed my inward parts; you knitted me together in my mother's womb." So when did God start the knitting process in the womb?
Posted on 8/28/22 at 8:25 pm to Squirrelmeister
You can make all the excuses that you want. You just ramble about obscure passages and somehow believe you have somehow woven together a coherent argument about the scriptures. I do not care if you hate God. But it is of no use to discuss the subject with you because you have no methodology behind your premise. It is just random foolishness.
Posted on 8/28/22 at 8:47 pm to Wolfhound45
Those obscure passages and random foolishness are plain text of the ESV and NASB translations. Sounds like your problem is with the Bible itself.
I noticed you were quoting KJV… translated from the corrupted Masoretic Text into a Medieval English which became more corrupted. Just a suggestion - the literal translations based on the LXX modified with additional and corrective material from the Qumran DSS might do you some good.
I noticed you were quoting KJV… translated from the corrupted Masoretic Text into a Medieval English which became more corrupted. Just a suggestion - the literal translations based on the LXX modified with additional and corrective material from the Qumran DSS might do you some good.
Posted on 8/28/22 at 8:48 pm to Squirrelmeister
I want to point to those reading who may be interested, not necessarily you (if you do not believe) that Deuteronomy 32 especially the verses you refer to may be dealing with end times events. When those that will be slain for their testimony and Gods Word are left and slain, they appear under the altar of incense in heaven, offering up their prayers to Him to avenge their blood. And those that desire to join the adversary will be an adversary to God if they choose so foolish a path.
"When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” Rev 6:9-10
While they are washed white with His blood, a couple chapters go by and He starts to deal with this by Ch 8 as He starts to perform the High Priest duties at the altar, He starts the seven trumpet judgements by hail mingled with fire and blood thrown to the earth. (Analogous to the the high priest duties during the Day of Atonement in Lev 16:14) sprinkled seven times before the mercy seat (of His throne).
These are the beginning of the seven trumpet judgements. Even during these times and with overwhelming evidence, (and Angels flying to and fro through the earth preaching the gospel to the ends of the earth (Rev 14:6-7), there will still be those who will curse Him and not turn back and repent and be healed. Rev 16:8,10.
YHVH is a just God. He is Jesus, He is the Holy Spirit. He is the Father, Three in One. He desires intimacy with Him, He desires for us to be redeemed, restored and to find rest in His truth and His strong tower.
But, there will be a greater and greater separation that will separate the wheat from the tares and it is taking place in the world today and it will be become more and more apparent as the pressure will continue to mount here on earth. Today is the day to hear his voice. We have entered into Elul and into a phase a repentance and no one can make any choices for you. God is a merciful God and will give you opportunities to turn back to Him, but He numbers all of our days and that of the adversary and his kingdoms here on earth will not last.
The Risen Jesus will re-take possession of the earth as the kingdoms of Satan and the strongholds built with lies will be swept away by hail (Is28:17) will be overflown, even in the dark hiding places.
Eternal peace and rest is found in Christ alone for those that confess that He is Lord and believe in their heart that God raised Him from the dead. The message of the cross is the power of God and the gospel of peace for those who desire it, but no one can make that choice for you.
"When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” Rev 6:9-10
While they are washed white with His blood, a couple chapters go by and He starts to deal with this by Ch 8 as He starts to perform the High Priest duties at the altar, He starts the seven trumpet judgements by hail mingled with fire and blood thrown to the earth. (Analogous to the the high priest duties during the Day of Atonement in Lev 16:14) sprinkled seven times before the mercy seat (of His throne).
These are the beginning of the seven trumpet judgements. Even during these times and with overwhelming evidence, (and Angels flying to and fro through the earth preaching the gospel to the ends of the earth (Rev 14:6-7), there will still be those who will curse Him and not turn back and repent and be healed. Rev 16:8,10.
YHVH is a just God. He is Jesus, He is the Holy Spirit. He is the Father, Three in One. He desires intimacy with Him, He desires for us to be redeemed, restored and to find rest in His truth and His strong tower.
But, there will be a greater and greater separation that will separate the wheat from the tares and it is taking place in the world today and it will be become more and more apparent as the pressure will continue to mount here on earth. Today is the day to hear his voice. We have entered into Elul and into a phase a repentance and no one can make any choices for you. God is a merciful God and will give you opportunities to turn back to Him, but He numbers all of our days and that of the adversary and his kingdoms here on earth will not last.
The Risen Jesus will re-take possession of the earth as the kingdoms of Satan and the strongholds built with lies will be swept away by hail (Is28:17) will be overflown, even in the dark hiding places.
Eternal peace and rest is found in Christ alone for those that confess that He is Lord and believe in their heart that God raised Him from the dead. The message of the cross is the power of God and the gospel of peace for those who desire it, but no one can make that choice for you.
Posted on 8/28/22 at 8:48 pm to Rex Feral
Yet no verse was quoted? Can someone give her a lobotomy already
Posted on 8/28/22 at 8:49 pm to Rex Feral
She probably eats placenta with her Popeyes.
Posted on 8/28/22 at 8:56 pm to Squirrelmeister
You used passages that had no coherent theme other than they fit your narrative that you hated God. They did not support your premise that God commanded the Israelites to abort their firstborn children. You have no argument so now you are casting about with random comments about translations and the original text. Make your argument. What is your underlying premise? Are you honestly foolish enough to believe that God commanded the Israelites to abort their firstborn children? Is that what you are trying to say? Seriously?
Posted on 8/28/22 at 9:27 pm to Rex Feral
She is ignorant and deceived on these matters and apparently so are some atheists in this thread.
Here's a hint:
There is a difference in scripture between describing something and prescribing something.
And there is a new covenant going on in the New Testament.
Here's a hint:
There is a difference in scripture between describing something and prescribing something.
And there is a new covenant going on in the New Testament.
Posted on 8/28/22 at 9:37 pm to AlwysATgr
quote:
Not sure I'm following your question. Before or after what?
quote:
Why conception? Why not before or after?
quote:
conception
Posted on 8/28/22 at 9:45 pm to Wolfhound45
quote:
You used passages that had no coherent theme other than they fit your narrative that you hated God. They did not support your premise that God commanded the Israelites to abort their firstborn children. You have no argument so now you are casting about with random comments about translations and the original text. Make your argument. What is your underlying premise? Are you honestly foolish enough to believe that God commanded the Israelites to abort their firstborn children? Is that what you are trying to say? Seriously?
One thing I’ve learned since proclaiming Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior is to minimize back and forth squabbling with non believers, particularly those who have listened to notable atheists like Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens, Lawrence Krauss, etc. These people have taken snippets of scripture that seem nonsensical or contrary to an all knowing and powerful God to refute the existence of the Creator.
Here’s a way to save yourself some time, something that Dr Frank Turek recommends. Ask them if Christianity were unequivocally true would they be a Christian? Most hardcore atheists will answer no…..at that point move on and save yourself the trouble of squabbling with them. As the Bible says, shake off the dust and move on.
Posted on 8/28/22 at 9:46 pm to Bass Tiger
Sound advice. Thanks.
Posted on 8/28/22 at 9:48 pm to Bass Tiger
quote:
Ask them if Christianity were unequivocally true would they be a Christian?
Yes.
In fact, I was in my younger years.
What does Turek recommend next?
Posted on 8/28/22 at 9:56 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:Hitting me up so we can discuss possibilities when you come down to Florida in the near future.
What does Turek recommend next?
This post was edited on 8/28/22 at 10:51 pm
Posted on 8/28/22 at 10:08 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:
Ask them if Christianity were unequivocally true would they be a Christian?
Yes.
In fact, I was in my younger years.
What does Turek recommend next?
It’s difficult for me to know what Dr Turek would specifically say but In your case he might inquire if you were indeed a born again Christian/Believer what caused you to reject the Gospel of Jesus Christ?
Posted on 8/28/22 at 10:15 pm to Bass Tiger
quote:Since I have a kindred soul to discuss this with, what do you think of the possibility of a person coming to faith in Christ and then later rejecting their faith? Not “losing” their salvation through sinful acts but actually having faith and then later making a conscious decision to reject it.
Bass Tiger
I am trying to reconcile 2 Peter 2:20-22 and Hebrews 6:4-6.
20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. 21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. 22 But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: “A dog returns to his own vomit,” and, “a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.”
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 [a]if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
Posted on 8/28/22 at 10:18 pm to Rex Feral
No Stacey......
6th Commandment: Thou Shalt not kill - Yahweh, Allah, God
You must not taunt God.
6th Commandment: Thou Shalt not kill - Yahweh, Allah, God
You must not taunt God.
Posted on 8/28/22 at 10:43 pm to civilag08
quote:
Deuteronomy 32 especially the verses you refer to may be dealing with end times events.
That’s possible. I actually believe Deut 32 is further justification for the Canaanites who became Judeans (and later to rope their brethren the Israelites) to elevate YHWH above all other gods and to quit worshipping the others. Similar passages in exodus 15:11, 1 kings 8:23, Isaiah 45:5, Psalm 82, numbers 33:4, Joshua 24:14 just to name a few.
It’s clear as day that El Elyon (sometimes referred to just as El) is the father of the gods. He is God Most High. He created the other gods including Baal, Yam, Asherah, YHWH, and the rest of the pantheon. YHWH was an unkind immoral god who was jealous of the other gods and loved killing. For some reason though El Elyon decided to give YHWH rule over the Judeans and Israelites first, and then later when the other gods weren’t doing a good job, he decided to let YHWH take over all the nations and let him judge the other gods and kill them. Jesus later comes and says he is son of the most high god (Greek words pronounced like “Theou tou Hupsistos”) and I personally believe Mark is referring to El Elyon. Too bad it wasn’t written in Hebrew for us to compare words directly. But… if Jesus was son of YHWH they would have used the word “Kyrios” which is how the Septuagint translated YHWH. If Jesus and the Father are one, they shouldn’t be very different or contradictory. Jesus couldn’t be further from YHWH in terms of his personality and works. I can’t find anywhere in scripture where Jesus is called son of Kyrios (YHWH) but plenty of verses call Jesus son of the Most High (El Elyon). Maybe Jesus and Yahweh are brothers but Jesus isn’t Yahweh’s son.
Look at Luke 1:32 and compare to Qumran scroll 4Q246. The messiah is going to be the son of the most high (El Elyon). That’s a different god than YHWH as proven by Deut 32 and Psalm 82.
Posted on 8/28/22 at 11:04 pm to Wolfhound45
quote:
Hitting me up so we can discuss possibilities when you come down to Florida in the near future.
Would be interesting conversation, for sure.
Posted on 8/28/22 at 11:05 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
Good deal.
This post was edited on 8/29/22 at 5:18 am
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