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Message
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Posted on 9/7/25 at 8:23 pm to Prodigal Son
quote:
My only contention is that, well, this meme explains it better than words:
I don’t get how or why you want to say our two positions are equivalent in terms of evidence and/or faith. It’s a false equivalency. My position is purely based on evidence while yours is based on faith, despite the evidence slapping you in the face.
quote:
In March of 2011, I lost my father. He was far from perfect (understatement)- but I loved the man. We had a great relationship (once I became an adult). But losing him, while it forced me to deal with and accept mortality- had no effect regarding my desire to continue on the path I had set for myself. On 12/30/2015, I lost my younger brother.
Man I am sorry you lost your love ones. I can almost imagine how difficult it must have been.
quote:
the evidence for the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ,
If there existed this evidence you speak of, then we would all be Christians. But a Greek literary creation, modeled after the Odyssey, turning Paul’s celestial Jesus into a man walking through Galilee, isn’t enough to convince non-Christians. It’s only enough to validate the ones who already believe due to their dogma that they chose to accept or that was indoctrinated into them from a young age.
quote:
Fast forward to 2020. In my 40’s. Covid, Biden , Trump, trannies, and Rush Limbaugh (who I had never listened to prior) made it apparent to me that this life really is good vs evil. Whether I liked it or not- it was a real thing
I agree, but I just don’t believe evil spirits (either working against Yahweh or sent by Yahweh) or even Yahweh himself (Isaiah 45:7) are causing the evil. Some people are just pieces of shite, greedy, and psychopaths.
quote:
Because, both the theist and the atheist ultimately rely on faith alone
I think you are lying to yourself when you repeat this. Look at the definition of “faith” from Hebrews 11:
quote:
Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.
The atheist lacks faith, so you can’t say he relies on faith.
quote:
Soooo, eyewitness testimony means nothing?
Not that it means nothing but it must be weighed against the other evidence (if any exists). There are 11 eyewitnesses to Joseph Smith’s golden plates. I’m still not convinced. Why would you not believe 11 eyewitnesses? Though irrelevant, the other thing you aren’t connecting in your head is that a claim of others being eyewitnesses is not an eyewitness account. Paul says there were 500 eyewitnesses to the risen Jesus… who are these people? We have no names and none of them wrote any of it down. With Joseph Smith’s nutcases at least we have their names, basic biographical information, and their hand-written and signed statements of what they saw.
Paul is the only writer of a New Testament manuscript who was an eyewitness to Jesus’ existence. He’s the only one who said “I saw the Lord”.
quote:
Of course not. Unless that’s code for raping children. Then I absolutely believe it.
I get that you don’t like Islam. Neither do I. But consider the reasons. Whatever those reasons are, I bet they exist in your own Bible. Slavery, subjugation of women, genocide, etc. it’s all in your holy book. The reason they’re so similar is because the original Islamists (probably not Mohammed, who like Jesus of Nazareth never existed in reality) were a sect of Jewish Christians.
quote:
Post a link and let’s discuss
Pliny the Elder, Natural History Book 2 Ch 23
quote:
Nah. That’s not how it works.
That’s exactly how it works. Luke’s story doesn’t resurrect Lazarus because even seeing Lazarus raised from the dead isn’t enough to convince people. John rebukes Luke’s story and resurrects Lazarus specifically as a tool to convince people.
quote:
Now that’s interesting. Would you care to elaborate?
Blinking into nothingness leaving my family behind isn’t comforting.
Posted on 9/7/25 at 8:25 pm to 5WFSHR
We need to stop indoctrinating people and let them experience life and form their own decisions.
Posted on 9/7/25 at 8:29 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
I hate them because even the concept of them is antithetical to the truth
No you don’t hate the concept of Zeus and Vishnu. You hate the actual gods of Greece and India.
Posted on 9/13/25 at 2:20 pm to Squirrelmeister
quote:
I don’t get how or why you want to say our two positions are equivalent in terms of evidence and/or faith. It’s a false equivalency. My position is purely based on evidence while yours is based on faith,
Evidence requires interpretation. Interpretation displays bias. There is no neutrality in belief. You absolutely have a dog in this fight. We all do. The claims of Christianity don’t allow for neutrality. You’re either with Him, or against Him. Neither position can be proven beyond doubt. Therefore we all are operating on faith/belief. Of that I am certain. What I question is whether God has not opened your spiritual eyes yet, or whether He did long ago and has given you over to your own desires.
quote:
Man I am sorry you lost your love ones. I can almost imagine how difficult it must have been.
Thanks. I wasn’t fishing for sympathy, but I appreciate it nonetheless. It was difficult when I lost my father. But also somewhat expected (just not the timing). But, losing my younger brother (he was 31- not a child) was life changing. I realized for the first time that I was not invincible. Though it would still take several years for me to stop fighting God. I hope it doesn’t take something like that for you. But if it does- it’s worth it. I will see them again. I want the same peace for you.
quote:
If there existed this evidence you speak of, then we would all be Christians.
That’s simply not true. It’s not about evidence. It’s not about intelligence. It’s about desire. God is a necessary being (see the ontological argument). One’s belief in, or against, is derived explicitly from one’s desire (which exclusively determines our interpretation of evidence. For example, you have no evidence to suggest that it could possibly be anything other than evil to rape a child. That should lead you to the conclusion that there is at least some sort of objective standard of morality. But, because of your inherent desire for Christianity to be false, you ignore this obvious truth and redirect the discussion to something that you believe displays God not adhering to His own objective standard. No offense, but that is not behavior that is conducive to finding truth. God is the only logical explanation for objective morality, you can’t believe in God, therefore there can’t be any objective morality. Sound about right?
quote:
It’s only enough to validate the ones who already believe due to their dogma that they chose to accept or that was indoctrinated into them from a young age.
You apparently missed the part where I said that I was not indoctrinated as a child. That I didn’t grow up in a Christian family. It’s like trying to describe a sunset to a blind man. Literally
quote:
I think you are lying to yourself when you repeat this. Look at the definition of “faith” from Hebrews 11:
I’m not using the word “faith” in a strictly religious sense. To me, faith is nothing more than a synonym of belief. It’s the placement of said faith/belief that makes the difference. For example, you have faith that your wife loves you. There is evidence to support that, and sometimes there appears (this is a whole other topic of discussion) to be reason to question it. But, if you repeatedly question it, you will lose that faith- and ultimately your wife. That’s how relationships work, and that’s what God wants from us.
quote:
The atheist lacks faith, so you can’t say he relies on faith.
Wrong. The agnostic lacks faith. The atheist has faith in his unprovable position that there is no God.
Faith/belief necessarily exists in the absence of incontrovertible facts (aka actual, true knowledge 2+2=4). If you can’t prove that God doesn’t exist, then you just really, really, really believe that He doesn’t. That’s faith bro. And yours is stronger than most Christians I know.
quote:
Blinking into nothingness leaving my family behind isn’t comforting.
Fair enough, but you’re conveniently ignoring the part about how comforting the idea of not facing judgement from a perfect and holy God is.
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