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re: What is your argument for two senators per state in modern times?
Posted on 7/7/22 at 3:18 pm to Indefatigable
Posted on 7/7/22 at 3:18 pm to Indefatigable
1. No I’m not a proponent of direct democracy. Because that has a meaning, and it’s not proportional representation.
2. I’m not in favor of a parliamentary system because I would Still favor separation of the executive office and the head of state and head of government being the same person elected by the people.
3. I think state rights are vestibular from when there were 13 colonies who’s only tie was the same kingdom ruled and settled them and proximity. Many of the founding fathers thought the constitution should be revisited every few decades. I’m sure in 1787 there was some Smug prick asking someone if they understood what a confederacy is.
2. I’m not in favor of a parliamentary system because I would Still favor separation of the executive office and the head of state and head of government being the same person elected by the people.
3. I think state rights are vestibular from when there were 13 colonies who’s only tie was the same kingdom ruled and settled them and proximity. Many of the founding fathers thought the constitution should be revisited every few decades. I’m sure in 1787 there was some Smug prick asking someone if they understood what a confederacy is.
1
Posted on 7/7/22 at 3:19 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:
California has 53 seats in the House. Hawaii has 2.
Which you know doesn’t matter unless the senate goes along with what the house is doing.
Posted on 7/7/22 at 3:22 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:
They have a voice in Congress.
In 1 house but 0 in the other.
Posted on 7/7/22 at 3:22 pm to aTmTexas Dillo
quote:
Hank, Senate was. The senate as a body is singular.
You elect individuals, not the body as a whole.
Were is correct.
Posted on 7/7/22 at 3:23 pm to SammyTiger
quote:
I think state rights are vestibular from when there were 13 colonies who’s only tie was the same kingdom ruled and settled them and proximity. Many of the founding fathers thought the constitution should be revisited every few decades. I’m sure in 1787 there was some Smug prick asking someone if they understood what a confederacy is.
I’m sure there were. Heck, there are still people, like you, who argue that straight national majority should dictate policy, without consideration of the issues that make such a system totally ridiculous in a nation this size.
The reason for the states themselves having a vested interest in government is even more of an issue now than it was then. California and ND have zero in common, and no one from either state should be subject to the political whims of the other.
The issue more lies in the destruction of the senate by the 17th amendment and 90 years of federal government encroachment than in the Senate framework.
This post was edited on 7/7/22 at 3:25 pm
Posted on 7/7/22 at 3:24 pm to SammyTiger
quote:
Which you know doesn’t matter unless the senate goes along with what the house is doing.
Yeah, that's just not true. The House has powers that are exclusive to the House.
quote:
In 1 house but 0 in the other.
You want to give significant portions of the population no voice in either.
Posted on 7/7/22 at 3:25 pm to burger bearcat
quote:
I would like it to go back to the old model pre-17th ammendment. Less democracy and more representation.
Yep. The 17th takes away the Senates' primary function in representing the concerns of state legislatures.
Posted on 7/7/22 at 3:30 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:
You want to give significant portions of the population no voice in either.
No I don’t.
They still get senators just not more than the people of theirs state call for.
Does Hawaii not get to vote in the House?
And does the house not flip parties regularly
Pretending this would become pure rule of major cities ignores that no party had dominated the OTHER house of Congress which is representative.
And let’s stop talking about cities and small states. This is ultimately red vs blue.
Posted on 7/7/22 at 3:45 pm to SammyTiger
quote:
And let’s stop talking about cities and small states. This is ultimately red vs blue.
Call it what you want, the political divide in this country has always been urban vs rural. 50%+1 simply does not work in a nation this size. It never will. There does simply have to be more consensus than that.
This post was edited on 7/7/22 at 3:46 pm
Posted on 7/7/22 at 3:56 pm to Indefatigable
quote:
Call it what you want, the political divide in this country has always been urban vs rural. 50%+1 simply does not work in a nation this size. It never will. There does simply have to be more consensus than that.
But you don’t need simply 50+1 to amend the constitution. You need way more. A party still needs both houses and the presidency to pass a bill or 2/3s to override a veto. Those are protections from just a small majority ruling.
Also a huge portion of the country lives in the suburbs. Look at Jefferson and St Tammany Parish around New Orleans. Super conservative and it’s not because they’re farmers.
Posted on 7/7/22 at 4:25 pm to SammyTiger
quote:
No I don’t.
Yes, you do.
The often misattributed quote about two wolves and a sheep comes to mind. It's somewhat trite, but not an unimportant idea. You think your ideas are fine, because the sheep still got a say. That's great for the wolves. Not so great for the sheep.
What this is really about, no matter how much you try to sidestep it, is imposing your ideas on others who you think you know better than. You aren't new or unique. You just don't like it.
quote:
And does the house not flip parties regularly
Sure, but there's no end to the wailing about that, either. It's worse than "my popular votes don't matter" nonsense.
quote:
And let’s stop talking about cities and small states. This is ultimately red vs blue.
The difference isn't meaningful, but sure, let's just call it out. You want blue control to impose your morality on others. Everyone should think as you think, because you have society figured out.
Posted on 7/7/22 at 4:26 pm to baybeefeetz
quote:
What is your argument for two senators per state in modern times?
To make baby back bitches cry
Posted on 7/7/22 at 4:35 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:
Yes, you do. The often misattributed quote about two wolves and a sheep comes to mind. It's somewhat trite, but not an unimportant idea. You think your ideas are fine, because the sheep still got a say. That's great for the wolves. Not so great for the sheep. What this is really about, no matter how much you try to sidestep it, is imposing your ideas on others who you think you know better than. You aren't new or unique. You just don't like it.
And the alternative is the minority imposing their ideas on others. Call it the drawback of a 2 part system.
quote:
Sure, but there's no end to the wailing about that, either. It's worse than "my popular votes don't matter" nonsense.
Should have stopped at Sure. Because bitching about having to agree with me doesn’t change the fact that you know I’m right on that point.
quote:
The difference isn't meaningful, but sure, let's just call it out.
Sure
quote:
You want blue control to impose your morality on others. Everyone should think as you think, because you have society figured out.
I’ve said before and I’ll maintain that having representative government doesn’t mean conservatives will never have power. You feel that way which is why you pretend to care about the sovereign rights of a bunch of empty land.
This post was edited on 7/7/22 at 4:39 pm
Posted on 7/7/22 at 4:43 pm to SammyTiger
quote:
And the alternative is the minority imposing their ideas on others. Call it the drawback of a 2 part system.
No, it isn't. The alternative is the minority has the ability to not be stepped on by the majority. I know Democrats love stepping on the minority, but you don't get free reign to do so.
quote:
Should have stopped at Sure. Because bitching about having to agree with me doesn’t change the fact that you know I’m right on that point.
Nah, I'm good with the amplifying information.
Bottom line is that you won't get your way. So all this is really about it mitigating your tantrum.
quote:
I’ve said before and I’ll maintain that having representative government doesn’t mean conservatives will never have power. You feel that way which is why you pretend to care about the sovereign rights of a bunch of empty land.
We already have a representative government, and it's mostly going well, if you could figure out that not everyone wants to live as you do.
Posted on 7/7/22 at 5:00 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:
No, it isn't. The alternative is the minority has the ability to not be stepped on by the majority. I know Democrats love stepping on the minority, but you don't get free reign to do so.
That’s just rhetoric. We have for better or worse a 2 party system. So if the controlling party doesn’t represent the majority of people that means the minority is ruling.
And don’t pretend like republicans are all freedom. They are the first ones to shut down freedom they don’t like when they have the power.
quote:
Nah, I'm good with the amplifying information.
Qualify.
You gave an answer you didn’t like and tried to qualify it.
quote:
Bottom line is that you won't get your way. So all this is really about it mitigating your tantrum.
Eye roll.
quote:
We already have a representative government, and it's mostly going well, if you could figure out that not everyone wants to live as you do.
How do you get off pretending your not in line with the party what’s going to force full term pregnancies, ban gay marriages, ban gay sex if possible. The only individual Liberties you like are guns and coughing on people.
Posted on 7/7/22 at 5:04 pm to SammyTiger
quote:
How do you get off pretending your not in line with the party what’s going to force full term pregnancies, ban gay marriages, ban gay sex if possible.
Triggered
Posted on 7/7/22 at 5:17 pm to SammyTiger
quote:
That’s just rhetoric. We have for better or worse a 2 party system. So if the controlling party doesn’t represent the majority of people that means the minority is ruling.
And don’t pretend like republicans are all freedom. They are the first ones to shut down freedom they don’t like when they have the power.
Call it whatever you want. It's exactly what I said it is.
And you're barking up the wrong tree if you think I'm pretending Republicans are anything.
quote:
Qualify.
You gave an answer you didn’t like and tried to qualify it.
Nope. I gave an answer you didn't like and I don't care.
quote:
Eye roll.
Yawn.
quote:
How do you get off pretending your not in line with the party what’s going to force full term pregnancies, ban gay marriages, ban gay sex if possible. The only individual Liberties you like are guns and coughing on people.
Well, it's pretty simple. I'm not a Republican.
But while we're on the topic, reconcile your fake championing of civil liberties with your opposition of the Second Amendment.
Posted on 7/7/22 at 5:54 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
What 3rd party have you voted for recently
Posted on 7/7/22 at 6:48 pm to SammyTiger
quote:
What 3rd party have you voted for recently
Well, we got you past wanting to fundamentally change our country to just being worried about my voting record. I'll call that a success.
Posted on 7/7/22 at 7:45 pm to baybeefeetz
same argument they had before...
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