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re: Why do Marxists resist being called Marxists?
Posted on 8/19/19 at 3:41 pm to volod
Posted on 8/19/19 at 3:41 pm to volod
quote:
Our food supply and energy supply is heavily subsidized by government today.
Where exactly did I say corporate welfare was any different or better than individual welfare.
One person’s mandated solar panels, is another solar panel company’s gain. It doesn’t make it any less problematic, or any less socialist because you think you’re mandating solar panels over other forms of energy, nor does it make it any less tyrannical if you’re not one of the “good” energy companies.
1
Posted on 8/19/19 at 3:43 pm to roadGator
quote:
America will never be a socialist country.
Sorry.
When Trump himself abolishes Social Security, then I'll believe him. Deal?
Posted on 8/19/19 at 3:48 pm to volod
quote:
public schools, social security, and most labor laws are socialism.
But let's just call it for what it really is, you just don't want your tax dollars to go to programs that you disagree with. Ironic considering their are plenty of useless programs GOP politicians like.
Yes. All of those are socialist. And all are perfect examples of how socialism doesn’t work.
And yes. You are correct. I don’t want my money to be used to pay for stuff I disagree with. I don’t want yours going to pay for stuff you disagree with. Socialism is government using someone’s money, to pay for someone else’s shite.
Posted on 8/19/19 at 3:49 pm to Wednesday
quote:This comes as a surprise to me, as someone for whom the chain of title to the family ranch traces back to a land grant to an ancestor from the government of Mexico.
The government doesn’t grant a deed to property. The government enforces the right of ownership held and claimed by the owner against people who may attempt to trespass on his rights.
Posted on 8/19/19 at 3:51 pm to Wednesday
No offense, Wednesday, but I prefer Tuesday:
Posted on 8/19/19 at 3:55 pm to Wednesday
quote:
Does anyone know why actual socialists think it’s an insult to be called a socialist?
Maybe the people you're accusing of being socialists aren't actually socialist? Maybe they just subscribe to a more Scandinavian style of government and don't like the idea of baseless claims that they support Venezuela or like that particular style of government.
Maybe we should take the time to learn about what we accuse the other side of before saying it. This isn't a problem that exists entirely on one side. Both sides pull this with of course the left's claims being racism and fascism while the right makes claims of communism and socialism. None of which make sense when you dig into what the person actually believes
Posted on 8/19/19 at 4:45 pm to dawgfan24348
quote:
Both sides
Posted on 8/19/19 at 5:05 pm to Wednesday
Yeah rolls your eyes all you want but I'm not going disregard something just because it's my side.
Posted on 8/19/19 at 5:07 pm to Wednesday
quote:
And yes. You are correct. I don’t want my money to be used to pay for stuff I disagree with. I don’t want yours going to pay for stuff you disagree with. Socialism is government using someone’s money, to pay for someone else’s shite.
Or that's a democratic republic where the people at some point gathered together and agreed to combine into a nation, to pool their resources (labor, money) to create a society that would be managed by elected officials who, through negotiation and compromise, would allocate expenditures to particular social services (military, fire, police, schools, infrastructure, etc). As a result, you, as a citizen, may get some of what you want and some of what you don't want.
The fault may actually lie in politicians being to responsive to their citizens and the compromise amongst the governing is we all give our guys what they want and bankrupt the country in the process! Ain't that America - Home of the Free!
Posted on 8/19/19 at 5:17 pm to dawgfan24348
quote:
Both sides pull this with of course the left's claims being racism and fascism while the right makes claims of communism and socialism. None of which make sense when you dig into what the person actually believes
both sides??
The Left claims the right is "racist and facist". That is false.
The right says the left is "socialist and communist". That is true. The Democratic Party is where socialists and communists make their home.
One label is true, the other is not. So don't act like this is equal treatment.
This post was edited on 8/19/19 at 5:20 pm
Posted on 8/19/19 at 6:42 pm to frogtown
quote:
The right says the left is "socialist and communist". That is true. The Democratic Party is where socialists and communists make their home.
Because communists and socialist vote left doesn't make the entire party is either. That's just as stupid as saying since the KKK tends to vote Republican therefore the right is racist. You're making the same idiotic claims as the left so you can shut down a debate
This post was edited on 8/19/19 at 6:43 pm
Posted on 8/19/19 at 7:16 pm to dawgfan24348
quote:
Because communists and socialist vote left doesn't make the entire party is either. That's just as stupid as saying since the KKK tends to vote Republican therefore the right is racist. You're making the same idiotic claims as the left so you can shut down a debate
Democrats have a more favorable view of socialism then capitalism. It is like 60/40 in last Gallup poll. So it is "OK" to call this the socialist party. This is who they are. THEY HAVE BRANDED/LABELED THEMSELVES. I don't have to do it for them. So it isn't hurtful or slander to call them for who they are.
The KKK is microscopic. I don't know how they vote. They are denounced by the right...period. Yet we have one half of the country calling the other racists and bigots because of these microscopic fringe groups.
The far left is embraced by the left.
What is called the far right is denounced by the right.
Yet you say this is equal treatment when labels are attached.
This isn't equal treatment. One is being honest the other is slander. Do you get it?
This post was edited on 8/19/19 at 7:20 pm
Posted on 8/19/19 at 8:34 pm to frogtown
quote:
Democrats have a more favorable view of socialism then capitalism. It is like 60/40 in last Gallup poll. So it is "OK" to call this the socialist party
So one poll makes the entire left socialist? That makes sense.
If you actually stepped out that bubble and listened to people on the left that aren't Twitter warriors or mainstream pundits you'd know many on the left hate the term socialists because it doesn't describe them. Many of them want the Scandinavian model which is a mix of capitalism and socialism. The ones of the left advocating for full ob socialism are few and far between.
Posted on 8/19/19 at 8:53 pm to dawgfan24348
quote:
Many of them want the Scandinavian model which is a mix of capitalism and socialism. The ones of the left advocating for full ob socialism are few and far between.
They want a country comprised of 90% white people? They want a GDP the size of Arkansas?
Just kidding. But not really.
The only thing they want is Medicare for all and free college. You can look at any outlet and they all report the staggering cost of what that would bring but also the complete lost of competition to find good doctors.
People on the left can want those things to mimic Norway, Finland, Denmark as much as they want but it’s a pipe dream.
It could maybe work in Vermont or lily white north eastern states. But even then California and Vermont pulled the plugs on their own versions for fear of the cost.
It just won’t work here in the US.
Posted on 8/19/19 at 8:55 pm to dawgfan24348
The majority of the left and Democrats we hear from are the very vocal American hating socialists and communists.
Posted on 8/19/19 at 9:02 pm to volod
quote:
ccording to your OP, the problem was that the person claimed that Omar was not a socialist. I don't have any record of Omar calling for communal control over property or the means of production. As far as I can tell, unless valid evidence is given of her ACTUALLY endorses community control at the detriment of private ownership, she is not socialist. The definition of socialism is not "anything that isn't capitalism". It has a set defined rule in that is requires you advocate or materialize state run control over all property and business rights. If you want to use a broad brush with socialism then public schools, social security, and most labor laws are socialism. But let's just call it for what it really is, you just don't want your tax dollars to go to programs that you disagree with. Ironic considering their are plenty of useless programs GOP politicians like.
I don’t agee with calling Omar are socialist because I’d like to actually assert the correct definition to the correct individual.
So far out in the mainstream political spectrum, Bernie, Warren and Harris are all socialist. Take over of healthcare and energy.
I understand why trump is labeling the entire Dem party as socialist because it’s a smart political maneuver. They are certainly drifting further left. Time will tell as far as other politicians and the party in general. But something major and I mean major has to happen for the Dems to be pulled back to the center.
And I’m sick and fricking tired of hearing how the mainstream ideas aren’t left, that they’re plenty of moderates. The media and Dems are doing a good job of shifting the Overton window like trump is branding them socialist.
Posted on 8/19/19 at 9:09 pm to Magician2
Bernie's medicare for all program will cost anywhere from $30-$40 trillion over 10 years. We currently spend $3.5 trillion per year on our current model. So at worse his plan is $500 billion more or it's $500 billion less.
Regardless these policies don't make him a a socialist nor do they make him a communist. Now I'm completely fine with criticism of his or anyone's polices. What I can't stand is being disingenuous by mislabeling someone. There's a reason why I never go to /r/politics
Regardless these policies don't make him a a socialist nor do they make him a communist. Now I'm completely fine with criticism of his or anyone's polices. What I can't stand is being disingenuous by mislabeling someone. There's a reason why I never go to /r/politics
Posted on 8/19/19 at 9:15 pm to dawgfan24348
quote:
Bernie's medicare for all program will cost anywhere from $30-$40 trillion over 10 years. We currently spend $3.5 trillion per year on our current model. So at worse his plan is $500 billion more or it's $500 billion less. Regardless these policies don't make him a a socialist nor do they make him a communist. Now I'm completely fine with criticism of his or anyone's polices. What I can't stand is being disingenuous by mislabeling someone. There's a reason why I never go to /r/politics
He wants state sponsored healthcare. Government takeover of healthcare....
Do you not comprehend what that means?
That my the correct definition makes him a socialist.
Posted on 8/19/19 at 9:16 pm to dawgfan24348
There's plenty of documentation out there Bernie is a card carrying Communist.
And he chose the Democrat party to advance his Communist bent.
And he chose the Democrat party to advance his Communist bent.
Posted on 8/19/19 at 9:19 pm to Magician2
There's a lot of government run programs in the US does that make us a socialist country? Being for some government run programs doesn't make a person a socialist
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