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Message
re: Without God, are all men truly equal?
Posted on 6/25/17 at 10:08 pm to Bass Tiger
Posted on 6/25/17 at 10:08 pm to Bass Tiger
quote:
If you look at the most oppressive, murderous, and brutal governments/empires in modern times they all share atheism as a tenet of their ruling system.
Well, that's not true. Most of the commonly referenced examples (we both know the list you'd post) are decidedly dogmatic, and often built on religion or a state church's foundation.
quote:
Hitler was not a Christian
He sure as hell didn't ride atheism to power.
2
Posted on 6/25/17 at 10:19 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:
Well, that's not true. Most of the commonly referenced examples (we both know the list you'd post) are decidedly dogmatic, and often built on religion or a state church's foundation.
quote:
Hitler was not a Christian
He sure as hell didn't ride atheism to power.
He was a pathological liar and the closest he ever got to being a Christian was dropping a few references in some of his writings and public speeches. There is no public record of Hitler regularly attending church.____________________________________________________________________
once in office, Hitler and his regime sought to reduce the influence of Christianity on society.[16] From the mid-1930s, his government was increasingly dominated by militant anti-Christians like Bormann, Goebbels, Himmler, Rosenberg and Heydrich whom Hitler appointed to key posts.[17] These anti-church radicals were generally permitted or encouraged to perpetrate the Nazi persecutions of the churches.[18] The regime launched an effort toward coordination of German Protestants under a unified Protestant Reich Church (but this was resisted by the Confessing Church), and moved early to eliminate political Catholicism.[19] Hitler agreed to the Reich concordat with Rome, but then routinely ignored it, and permitted persecutions of the Catholic Church.[20] Smaller religious minorities faced harsher repression, with the Jews of Germany expelled for extermination on the grounds of Nazi racial ideology. Jehovah's Witnesses were ruthlessly persecuted for refusing both military service and allegiance to Hitler's movement. Hitler said he anticipated a coming collapse of Christianity in the wake of scientific advances, and that Nazism and religion could not co-exist long term.[21] Although he was prepared to delay conflicts for political reasons, historians conclude that he ultimately intended the destruction of Christianity in Germany, or at least its distortion or subjugation to a Nazi outlook.
THE DEVIL IS THE MASTER OF DECEPTION!!!!!!!!!
This post was edited on 6/25/17 at 10:21 pm
Posted on 6/25/17 at 10:27 pm to bmy
quote:
if the north american continent became uninhabitable due to some cataclysmic event.. would result in massive depopulation at the hands of skin cancer if forced to move closer to the equator.
Skin cancer doesn't develop quickly enough for there to be no offspring AND its not transmitted through genetics.
Posted on 6/25/17 at 10:29 pm to Bass Tiger
quote:
He was a pathological liar and the closest he ever got to being a Christian was dropping a few references in some of his writings and public speeches. There is no public record of Hitler regularly attending church.
I'm not talking only of his personal beliefs, although those were certainly dogmatic as well. Hitler had no power without religion, and he knew that. He remained in the church, and ordered his leadership to do so as well.
Posted on 6/25/17 at 10:30 pm to Bass Tiger
quote:
Don't throw the "Hitler was a Christian" myth into the thread ... one does not have to think very hard to understand Hitler was not a Christian
"We tolerate no one in our ranks who attacks the ideas of Christianity... in fact our movement is Christian. We are filled with a desire for Catholics and Protestants to discover one another in the deep distress of our own people.
Hitler on October 27, 1928
"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded only by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and of adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. Today, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before - the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice."
"For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people. And when I look on my people I see it work and work and toil and labor, and at the end of the week it has only for its wage wretchedness and misery. When I go out in the morning and see these men standing in their queues and look into their pinched faces, then I believe I would be no Christian, but a very devil, if I felt no pity for them, if I did not, as did our Lord two thousand years ago, turn against those by whom today this poor people is plundered and exploited."
Hitler on April 12, 1922
“We were convinced that the people need and require this faith. We have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations; we have stamped it out.”
Hitler on October 23, 1933
Imbued with the desire to secure for the German people the great religious, moral, and cultural values rooted in the two Christian Confessions, we have abolished the political organizations but strengthened the religious institutions.
Hitler on January 30, 1934
"The National Socialist State professes its allegiance to positive Christianity. It will be its honest endeavor to protect both the great Christian Confessions in their rights, to secure them from interference with their doctrines, and in their duties to constitute a harmony with the views and the exigencies of the State of to-day."
Hitler on June 26, 1934
"Besides that, I believe one thing: there is a Lord God! And this Lord God creates the peoples.”
"The Lord Almighty assuredly did not create this earth for the English exclusively! The Lord Almighty has assuredly not provided that a few small races, which cannot supply their own people with basic necessities, should subjugate three quarters of the earth and condemn all other peoples to starvation."
"May the Lord see to it that this supreme leadership of today is not mistaken for the leadership of the year 1914!"
Hitler on February 24, 1940
i can do this for at least another 10 minutes
This post was edited on 6/25/17 at 10:33 pm
Posted on 6/25/17 at 10:30 pm to tiggerthetooth
quote:
Skin cancer doesn't develop quickly enough for there to be no offspring AND its not transmitted through genetics.
Whitey's got this one figured, we'll just put on some light colored loose fitting clothes and cover our asses up, kinda like those Arabs do. Superior intellect.
Posted on 6/25/17 at 10:31 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:
He sure as hell didn't ride atheism to power.
You make it sound as if he had to have some religious doctrine in mind. Maybe he just thought of his own ways as the center of his beliefs. Is that not at all feasible? He also very outspokenly revered Islam for its culture of guiltless warfare. So he embraced Islam in some sense...OR the easy answer is that even though he may have through his upbringing been influenced by particular religions, he never tightly clung to any religion in particular. I'm sure any of his connection to Christianity was mere convenience to assume the power he ultimately wielded during the Third Reich.
Posted on 6/25/17 at 10:33 pm to tiggerthetooth
quote:
I'm sure any of his connection to Christianity was mere convenience to assume the power he ultimately wielded during the Third Reich.
It was all about deception.
Posted on 6/25/17 at 10:34 pm to Bass Tiger
Without God, humans have no intrinsic value. Equality as we define it is based on value or worth which, without God, is a subjective concept. It's a point where the atheist (for example) is inconsistent with their own worldview.
Posted on 6/25/17 at 10:38 pm to tiggerthetooth
quote:
You make it sound as if he had to have some religious doctrine in mind.
No, I don't.
quote:
Maybe he just thought of his own ways as the center of his beliefs. Is that not at all feasible?
He used religion to his benefit. That's obvious.
quote:
I'm sure any of his connection to Christianity was mere convenience to assume the power he ultimately wielded during the Third Reich.
Of course it was. I don't blame Christianity for Hitler. I only ask that we don't incorrectly blame atheism for Hitler.
Posted on 6/25/17 at 10:39 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
Without God, humans have no intrinsic value.
Still wrong.
Posted on 6/25/17 at 10:42 pm to MastrShake
Hitler was as much of a Christian as Ghandi was.
Posted on 6/25/17 at 10:46 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:
He used religion to his benefit. That's obvious.
As stated, it was merely convenience that Christianity was the foremost religion among the ones he was seeking to rule over.
quote:
Of course it was. I don't blame Christianity for Hitler. I only ask that we don't incorrectly blame atheism for Hitler.
You could quite possibly blame a lack of moral understanding...without religious texts, what teaches us to care for and help those lesser than us? Why should we just not kill off all the weak people for more food, less carbon emissions, more for less people. Why shouldn't we do that? There's scores of people out there who contribute little to nothing to society, why should anyone feel guilty for offing these people? What stops us from killing each other?
Atheism in many ways benefits from the long held beliefs in humanity deeply rooted in religious texts that have been passed on from generation to generation since the dawn of man. Where would any moral principles come from in atheism? Atheism seems to believe these beliefs would exist anyways...but who would instill these beliefs, and WHY?
This post was edited on 6/25/17 at 10:48 pm
Posted on 6/25/17 at 10:47 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:
quote:
Without God, humans have no intrinsic value.
Still wrong.
How is that wrong? Who gives humanity any intrinsic value and what is the PROOF of this intrinsic value? Atheism doesn't account for anything beyond the physical world and what can be proved through physical evidence.
Posted on 6/25/17 at 10:48 pm to MastrShake
quote:He was a pathological liar and the closest he ever got to being a Christian was dropping a few references in some of his writings and public speeches. There is no public record of Hitler regularly attending church.____________________________________________________________________
quote:
Don't throw the "Hitler was a Christian" myth into the thread ... one does not have to think very hard to understand Hitler was not a Christian
"We tolerate no one in our ranks who attacks the ideas of Christianity... in fact our movement is Christian. We are filled with a desire for Catholics and Protestants to discover one another in the deep distress of our own people.
Hitler on October 27, 1928
"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded only by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and of adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. Today, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before - the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice."
"For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people. And when I look on my people I see it work and work and toil and labor, and at the end of the week it has only for its wage wretchedness and misery. When I go out in the morning and see these men standing in their queues and look into their pinched faces, then I believe I would be no Christian, but a very devil, if I felt no pity for them, if I did not, as did our Lord two thousand years ago, turn against those by whom today this poor people is plundered and exploited."
Hitler on April 12, 1922
“We were convinced that the people need and require this faith. We have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations; we have stamped it out.”
Hitler on October 23, 1933
Imbued with the desire to secure for the German people the great religious, moral, and cultural values rooted in the two Christian Confessions, we have abolished the political organizations but strengthened the religious institutions.
Hitler on January 30, 1934
"The National Socialist State professes its allegiance to positive Christianity. It will be its honest endeavor to protect both the great Christian Confessions in their rights, to secure them from interference with their doctrines, and in their duties to constitute a harmony with the views and the exigencies of the State of to-day."
Hitler on June 26, 1934
"Besides that, I believe one thing: there is a Lord God! And this Lord God creates the peoples.”
"The Lord Almighty assuredly did not create this earth for the English exclusively! The Lord Almighty has assuredly not provided that a few small races, which cannot supply their own people with basic necessities, should subjugate three quarters of the earth and condemn all other peoples to starvation."
"May the Lord see to it that this supreme leadership of today is not mistaken for the leadership of the year 1914!"
Hitler on February 24, 1940
i can do this for at least another 10 minutes
=========================================================================================================
once in office, Hitler and his regime sought to reduce the influence of Christianity on society.[16] From the mid-1930s, his government was increasingly dominated by militant anti-Christians like Bormann, Goebbels, Himmler, Rosenberg and Heydrich whom Hitler appointed to key posts.[17] These anti-church radicals were generally permitted or encouraged to perpetrate the Nazi persecutions of the churches.[18] The regime launched an effort toward coordination of German Protestants under a unified Protestant Reich Church (but this was resisted by the Confessing Church), and moved early to eliminate political Catholicism.[19] Hitler agreed to the Reich concordat with Rome, but then routinely ignored it, and permitted persecutions of the Catholic Church.[20] Smaller religious minorities faced harsher repression, with the Jews of Germany expelled for extermination on the grounds of Nazi racial ideology. Jehovah's Witnesses were ruthlessly persecuted for refusing both military service and allegiance to Hitler's movement. Hitler said he anticipated a coming collapse of Christianity in the wake of scientific advances, and that Nazism and religion could not co-exist long term.[21] Although he was prepared to delay conflicts for political reasons, historians conclude that he ultimately intended the destruction of Christianity in Germany, or at least its distortion or subjugation to a Nazi outlook.
I could do this all night, the actions and behavior of Hitler are not Christ like, you do understand what deception is?
Posted on 6/25/17 at 10:49 pm to airfernando
quote:
did you miss the part about Satan, sin, etc.?
If I were to believe in either, which I don't, I'd say that God, as the creator of all, has to own them.
Posted on 6/25/17 at 10:56 pm to Big12fan
quote:
If I were to believe in either, which I don't, I'd say that God, as the creator of all, has to own them.
God set the rules and allowed man free will, the world as we know it was created by our choices both good and bad.
Posted on 6/25/17 at 10:57 pm to Bass Tiger
There is only God.
Posted on 6/25/17 at 11:25 pm to Bass Tiger
quote:clearly you cant because thats the same wiki page you linked a minute ago.
I could do this all night
quote:he repeatedly declared that he was a christian for well over 25 years.
the actions and behavior of Hitler are not Christ like, you do understand what deception is?
but fine, lets say youre right and he was just pretending. that it wasnt how he felt personally and was just pandering to his christian audience. all this means is that christians were the ones carrying out his orders.
at best they were mindless drones who do as theyre told. at worst they felt his plan was in fact consistent with christianity.
do you actually think this alternative is better?
Posted on 6/25/17 at 11:39 pm to MastrShake
I've noticed that you continue to do the same thing in these threads by blaming a religion for the actions of those who act against what that religion teaches. You don't seem to want to credit religion for the good things its followers do in its name but only blame it for the bad things done. Why is that?
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