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Message
re: UCL group stage draw
Posted on 8/30/12 at 3:52 pm to RandySavage
Posted on 8/30/12 at 3:52 pm to RandySavage
quote:
Ok if you want to go with a technicality, and what about Ronaldo?
Again, bigger tournament winner.
Any of those three would've been worthy winners. I don't get why Iniesta winning is so ridiculous. He deserved it as much as CR7 or Messi.
Soccer is much more than goals.
2
Posted on 8/30/12 at 3:52 pm to WarSlamEagle
Posted on 8/30/12 at 4:07 pm to WarSlamEagle
quote:
Soccer is much more than goals.
You've already tried this weak, irrelevant, attempt to be an elitist argument. However, and not surprisingly, you conveniently ignore the fact that both Ronaldo and Messi also created more goals. So they score about 5x as many goals and create more goals and complete more dribbles and draw more fouls and win huge trophies... So again, how can you possibly try and make an argument for Iniesta (as good as he is) over those two guys?
Posted on 8/30/12 at 4:08 pm to RandySavage
Posted on 8/30/12 at 4:19 pm to RandySavage
quote:
You've already tried this weak, irrelevant, attempt to be an elitist argument.
This is not an elitist argument. I have never even come close to elitist. I watch MLS.
I'm saying that Iniesta was a key piece to the Euro champions and Barcelona, although they didn't win anything.
I thought Ronaldo was going to win, but all three of them would've made great winners. Iniesta does so much that simple scoring stats don't show. When was the last time you saw him have a bad game? Consistent player that's the best midfielder on the planet. I can see why the majority picked him over Messi or CR7.
Again, Iniesta was the MVP of a UEFA tournament. Messi and Ronaldo weren't. That's where he, in a sense, made up ground and went past the other two. You're neglecting that.
Elitist? Pssh. Says the guy who thinks that supporting more than one European team (even in separate leagues) is the unpardonable sin.
This post was edited on 8/30/12 at 4:23 pm
Posted on 8/30/12 at 4:30 pm to WarSlamEagle
quote:
Iniesta does so much that simple scoring stats don't show.
Barcelona run such a complex system. People don't realize just how big of an impact Iniesta has on that team. His movement alone gives Messi dozens of extra goals a season.
Posted on 8/30/12 at 4:34 pm to LSUSOBEAST1
quote:
People don't realize just how big of an impact Iniesta has on that team.
Right, only you select chosen few soccer elitists can possibly fathom it.
This post was edited on 8/30/12 at 4:35 pm
Posted on 8/30/12 at 4:36 pm to RandySavage
No one said that.
You must've forgot your reading glasses today.
You must've forgot your reading glasses today.
Posted on 8/30/12 at 4:37 pm to RandySavage
THIS is where we start calling you a troll, not earlier
Posted on 8/30/12 at 4:45 pm to Jumbeauxlaya
I'm actually glad this thread happened. I almost made a post a couple of weeks back when the troll stuff was really out of hand about my theory that I could post that Messi was the best player in the world and somehow be called a troll for it. Now I have proof.
There is zero logical argument for Iniesta so you have to resort to hidden "stats" or impacts on games that people "just don't understand". I know "goals aren't everything" Zidane is the best player I have ever seen and plenty of guys scored more goals than him. Michael Essien (in his prime) was my favorite player to watch and he only scored a handful a season. I understand completely how good Iniesta is, 3rd best player in the world. However the gap between him and the top 2 is substantial.
This award is simply a case that everyone realizes CRon and Messi are far superior to anyone else in the world right now but they don't want to give the award to the same people everytime so they give it to another excellent player as a way to recognize their talent and career. Pretty much like when Giggs won the PFA award a couple of years back when he was a bit part player for United.
There is zero logical argument for Iniesta so you have to resort to hidden "stats" or impacts on games that people "just don't understand". I know "goals aren't everything" Zidane is the best player I have ever seen and plenty of guys scored more goals than him. Michael Essien (in his prime) was my favorite player to watch and he only scored a handful a season. I understand completely how good Iniesta is, 3rd best player in the world. However the gap between him and the top 2 is substantial.
This award is simply a case that everyone realizes CRon and Messi are far superior to anyone else in the world right now but they don't want to give the award to the same people everytime so they give it to another excellent player as a way to recognize their talent and career. Pretty much like when Giggs won the PFA award a couple of years back when he was a bit part player for United.
Posted on 8/30/12 at 4:48 pm to RandySavage
This wasn't a "Who is the best player in the world right now?" award. This is a "Who had a better 2011-12 season in Europe?"
One guy helped win Euro. I don't see why it's so ridiculous that he won.
Again, even candidates...one had to win.
One guy helped win Euro. I don't see why it's so ridiculous that he won.
Again, even candidates...one had to win.
Posted on 8/30/12 at 4:51 pm to RandySavage
quote:
There is zero logical argument for Iniesta so you have to resort to hidden "stats" or impacts on games that people "just don't understand".
If you think that the best players are forwards that score goals, I'm sorry.
We gave you a freaking logical argument. It might not fit into your idea of the game, and that's fine. But soccer IS more than goals, and Iniesta is the best midfielder in the world that currently plays for the world's best team (Spain). Just pull up his passing charts sometime, Stat Man.
This post was edited on 8/30/12 at 4:53 pm
Posted on 8/30/12 at 4:51 pm to WarSlamEagle
quote:
One guy helped win Euro. I don't see why it's so ridiculous that he won.
They already have an award for MVP of the Euro winning team. As you said, this was for the entire season which completely separates the top two from everyone else. Again, even if you include the Euros Ronaldo was one of the top players of the tournament so Iniesta doesn't even separate himself there.
Posted on 8/30/12 at 4:52 pm to WarSlamEagle
quote:
If you think that the best players are forwards that score goals, I'm sorry.
Ok, so you don't even read my posts.
Posted on 8/30/12 at 4:54 pm to WarSlamEagle
quote:
WarSlamEagle
I'm with you, arguments can and should be made for all 3. I definitely think Iniesta is worthy of the award though.
quote:
There is zero logical argument for Iniesta
Posted on 8/30/12 at 4:55 pm to RandySavage
quote:
Ok, so you don't even read my posts.
Your arguments for Messi and Ronaldo (which were both deserving candidates) revolved around goals.
Posted on 8/30/12 at 4:56 pm to RandySavage
quote:
Again, even if you include the Euros Ronaldo was one of the top players of the tournament so Iniesta doesn't even separate himself there.
But he wasn't on the winning team. UEFA people are going to favor a guy who won their biggest tournament.
So, yeah, there was a separation.
Posted on 8/30/12 at 4:56 pm to RandySavage
quote:
Ok, so you don't even read my posts.
I think most of us try to avoid them.
Posted on 8/30/12 at 4:57 pm to RandySavage
quote:
that I could post that Messi was the best player in the world and somehow be called a troll for it
Is this the point of your argument? To try and provoke a "troll" regurgitation? You wonder why nobody takes you seriously..
Messi is the best player in the world. Nobody is arguing that. He'll win the Balloon d'Or (or whatever it's called now), but he doesn't have to sweep the award podium to be considered the best.
Iniesta had a fantastic season and all 3 players were deserving. The award is based on more than just club performances, and Iniesta was fortunate enough to have plenty of international success this season.
Why do you insist on conflict?
This post was edited on 8/30/12 at 5:00 pm
Posted on 8/30/12 at 4:57 pm to BobLoblaw
quote:
I'm with you, arguments can and should be made for all 3. I definitely think Iniesta is worthy of the award though.
This is my stance. A lot on here feel the same way.
Randy sees this as an opportunity to be different and play the martyr card.
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