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re: OC - Paul Chryst (Wisconsin OC) - Do we have a shot?
Posted on 1/13/11 at 2:32 pm to H-Town Tiger
Posted on 1/13/11 at 2:32 pm to H-Town Tiger
quote:
He ran a gimmicky offense in a conference that for the most part had bad defenses and usually lost 4 games a year. I don't think they used TE's so what differnce would that make
This statement is all I need to know that you know nothing about what you're talking about. If you think the offense that Leach runs is gimmicky then you know don't know anything about football.
2
Posted on 1/13/11 at 2:34 pm to Kunka
quote:
The point is if a coach like Mike Leach for example can do what he did all those years at a place like Texas Tech, what do you think he could do at an elite program like LSU where you have WR's, RB's, TE's that are 2-3 times the players he had to work with at Texas Tech?
No, the point is: How poorly would Leach's offenses have performed if they would have had to go up against the likes of the SEC? The Big XII had only Oklahoma that consistently appeared in the top 25 defenses since 2006. The SEC routinely had 3 in the TOP 10 and many more in the Top 25, with 5 or 6 (including Tenn. and Vandy)in the Top 25 in 2008. The fact is, Leach didn't routinely face the level of defenses that he would in the SEC.
Posted on 1/13/11 at 2:36 pm to Kunka
quote:
The guy calling the plays or the one pulling the strings had a bad game. That was the most pathetically called offensive game I've ever seen. LSU had 3 1st Round draft choices at QB & WR and all LSU did was run the ball into 8-9 man fronts the whole game until the last few mins
Yeah, this topic has been brought up so much, I think the box score is in German only.
We threw 35 passes and ran 23 times in that game. In any event even if the guy calling the plays had a bad game, that is not an indictment of the type of offense they ran, which is what I'm talking about. No offense is perfect every game. You like Leach? Check out the 2008 OU game, they scored a whopping 7 points until there were about 6 minutes left in the 3rd quarter and they were down by 45. Every offense will have a bad game.
LSU-AU Box score below
LINK
Posted on 1/13/11 at 2:41 pm to Chicot
Typical SEC homer comment. SEC has the best athletes and the best teams from top to bottom no question about it. We are talking about Texas Tech here, did you read that right? Texas Tech. If Leach was at an SEC school he would have elite athletes which means all the talk about better athletes would go out the window. For the record, Leach & Mumme took the same "gimmicky" offense to Kentucky with a bunch of slap dick athletes and butt raped SEC defenses during their tenure there.
Posted on 1/13/11 at 2:42 pm to Kunka
quote:
If you think the offense that Leach runs is gimmicky then you know don't know anything about football.
I bow to your vastly superior knowledge oh great one
Maybe you can edumecate a poor stupid sap like me and explain why throwing the ball 55 times a game is so amazingly innovative?
Posted on 1/13/11 at 2:42 pm to Kunka
quote:
This statement is all I need to know that you know nothing about what you're talking about. If you think the offense that Leach runs is gimmicky then you know don't know anything about football.
This statement tells me that you THINK you know a lot more about football than you do. It is a given...it is a fact, that Leach's offense is/was gimmicky....as in it was definetly anything but "straight-up football". Just because it semi-worked against lower tier defenses doesn't it wasn't gimmicky....
by the way, you ever consider that he couldn't get the big time athletes because none of the blue chippers wanted to play in that system? The ones that were willing to play in that system were the one's that wanted to play on Sundays but knew they couldn't get it done in a traditional pro style system. How many of Leach's QBs and WRs have gone on to great NFL careers? I can't think of anyone. Reason why...the ones that had a legitimate chance at playing on sundays went to schools that ran offenses that prepared them for the pro scene.
Posted on 1/13/11 at 2:45 pm to H-Town Tiger
I personally would like to see paul chryst as the next oc...lsu has the personell to run his offense effectively..call me old school..but, i prefer to see a hard nose ground game ... boring? maybe..effective? of course...nebraska won 3 NCs with a hard nose ground game...Lsu won the 2003 BCSNC with a hard nose ground game...seattle sent the saints home with a hard nose ground game....
bring in chryst.......
bring in chryst.......
Posted on 1/13/11 at 2:47 pm to Kunka
quote:
Mumme took the same "gimmicky" offense to Kentucky with a bunch of slap dick athletes and butt raped SEC defenses during their tenure there.
you mean slap dicks like a guy drafted #1 overall in the NFL?
Maybe I was in a coma or something when Mumme was at UK, how many conference titles did they win during that time?
Posted on 1/13/11 at 2:47 pm to Kunka
quote:
For the record, Leach & Mumme took the same "gimmicky" offense to Kentucky with a bunch of slap dick athletes and butt raped SEC defenses during their tenure there.
Really, buttraped? Kentucky had a losing record during their tenure there..20-26. Boy sounds like they set the world on fire!!!!!
If Mumme's system is so great in college football, then why is the best job that he can get is at McMurry University?
This post was edited on 1/13/11 at 2:57 pm
Posted on 1/13/11 at 2:47 pm to H-Town Tiger
I know every offense will have an off game, that's not the point. If you think Russell and that skill set at LSU was utilized properly then you don't know football.
I guess OU being a superior team to Texas Tech in 2008 had nothing to do with the outcome of that game?
I guess OU being a superior team to Texas Tech in 2008 had nothing to do with the outcome of that game?
Posted on 1/13/11 at 2:47 pm to snake1
If we run the ball 60 times a game and passit 10 times and win I'm all for it.
Posted on 1/13/11 at 2:51 pm to Kunka
quote:
you think Russell and that skill set at LSU was utilized properly then you don't know football.
You give Russell way too much credit. If anything, he over achieved while at LSU. I don't want to get too far away from discussion about offensive scheme, but there is much more to being a good QB than physical ability, which he did have. But he didn't have the drive, leadership, or smarts to pull it off any better than he did. If he was so poorly utilized at LSU, then how do you explain that by all accounts his best days of his career were definetly at LSU. The coaches got things out of him that know one else could.
Posted on 1/13/11 at 2:59 pm to Chicot
quote:
by the way, you ever consider that he couldn't get the big time athletes because none of the blue chippers wanted to play in that system?
i think its the other way around. TT can't get the big time blue chippers, so Leach put in an offense that can work with 2nd tier guys. Lots of Texas HS run variations of the spread, so its easy to find QB's that chuck it around but aren't getting looks from D1 teams. The fact their QB's were interchangible should show its a gimmicky offense.
Also if you look at Dykes vs Leach, not much different in results, save the one big year in 2008.
LINK
Posted on 1/13/11 at 2:59 pm to Chicot
quote:
Really, buttraped? Kentucky had a losing record during their tenure there..20-26. Boy sounds like they set the world on fire!!!!!
You obviously are illiterate. I said they butt raped SEC Defenses. I didn't say they won conference championships. Those Kentucky teams gave every team fits because of what they were able to do on offense. You talk about Kentucky like they have ever been on the same level with every other good SEC football program from a talent standpoint.
You can be a fan of the "pro-style" and think that every other type of offense isn't as good, you're entitled to your view point. But failing to see that other types of offense's produce as good if not better results and win championships is just stupid.
I remember people saying Steve Spurrier's offense would never work in the SEC, they were all dead wrong.
I remember people saying Urban Meyer's offense would never work in the SEC, they were all dead wrong.
I remember people saying the Air Raid would never work in the SEC, they were all dead wrong.
I remember people saying that Gus Malzahn's offense wouldn't work in the SEC, they were all dead wrong.
I remember people saying that Florida State would never win a championship with their offense, boy were those people dead wrong.
Posted on 1/13/11 at 3:04 pm to Kunka
quote:
If you think Russell and that skill set at LSU was utilized properly then you don't know football.
in that game or overall? Do have any other critics besides telling someone they don't know football? LSU went 11-2, finished #3, with 2 road loses to top 10 teams. I don't what the final offensive ranking was in 2006, but i'm fairly certain it wasn't in the 100's. The personel we had then was perfect for a pro style system and that's basically what we ran.
Posted on 1/13/11 at 3:05 pm to H-Town Tiger
quote:
i think its the other way around. TT can't get the big time blue chippers, so Leach put in an offense that can work with 2nd tier guys.
I don't buy this agrument. TCU doesn't get blue chippers either, but they are successful running a more traditional offense (still a spread offense but much less gimmicky than what Leach ran).
Posted on 1/13/11 at 3:10 pm to Kunka
quote:
You can be a fan of the "pro-style" and think that every other type of offense isn't as good,
I can't speak for every one, but that's not what I'm saying. You and some others seem to be saying the opposite. USC won a shite ton of games running a pro style offense. So did Miami when they were good. Bama's offense is pro style. The personel LSU has right now fits that offense. Why do we what to under go a radical change in style when its been proven you can win and have great offensive #'s running that offense?
Part of the reason UK gave people fits was because the offense is gimmicky and not what you see every week. To think just take that to another school and be invisible is silly.
Posted on 1/13/11 at 3:11 pm to Chicot
quote:
How many of Leach's QBs and WRs have gone on to great NFL careers? I can't think of anyone.
Wes Welker hasn't done too bad for himself. Only led the NFL in receptions in 2007 and 2009
ETA: Besides him, everyone else has been pretty unflattering. I would agree that his system doesn't prepare anyone for the NFL. Welker just put in the extra work, got a little lucky, etc.
This post was edited on 1/13/11 at 3:13 pm
Posted on 1/13/11 at 3:11 pm to Chicot
quote:
I don't buy this agrument. TCU doesn't get blue chippers either, but they are successful running a more traditional offense
i didn't say you can only be successful with out elite athletes running that O, that's just the path Leach took.
ETA: The point is that O can be successful with out blue chippers.
This post was edited on 1/13/11 at 3:14 pm
Posted on 1/13/11 at 3:12 pm to Kunka
quote:
But failing to see that other types of offense's produce as good if not better results and win championships is just stupid.
Define "better results". Is it perhaps more flashy and more exciting? Sure it (Leach's gimmicky offense) is more exciting, though it is partly because you never know what is going to happen. But running that offense doesn't necessarily equate to winning championships. I don't have the time, but I bet if you were to do a search of how many championships have been won by teams running a pro-style offense, it would far out number the number of teams that run the spread. Not to mention, we already have the personnel to run a pro-style offense rather than the air raid. And for me, that is really what it comes down to. We already have the right personnel, and it is far easier to find the personnel to run the pro-style correctly rather than an air raid offense.
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