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Posted on 9/1/11 at 9:44 am to Indiana Tiger
quote:
This is why, imo, people like Jackie Sherrill are predicting 4 conf with 18-20 members instead of just 16.
This makes sense. So if I'm the SEC I need to get to 16 ASAP and expand my footprint as much as I can.
So after A&M becoming #13 (adding TX), I want VT as #14 (adding VA and maybe DC market), NC State as #15 (adding Charlotte/Research Triangle markets, most likely choice to break away from the other NC schools) and Okie State as #16 (like A&M they can carve their own path away from a juggernaut big brother).
If I then have to go to 18 or 20, add WV as #17 (at this point I've expanded my footprint about as much as I reasonably can), FSU as #18 (hammerlock the FL media power), Georgia Tech as #19 (hammerlock ATL media plus significantly improve academic standing) and Clemson as #20 (best fit of remaining available schools).
Sorry this was delayed--boss was nearby
Posted on 9/1/11 at 9:47 am to Quidam65
Okie State brings nothing to a conference. No economic or eyeball footprint.
At least Oklahoma brings history and a somewhat large fanbase.
Oklahoma State brings absoultely nothing except for an attention whore donor who has mismanaged his hedge fund and alternative energy projects over the past decade.
At least Oklahoma brings history and a somewhat large fanbase.
Oklahoma State brings absoultely nothing except for an attention whore donor who has mismanaged his hedge fund and alternative energy projects over the past decade.
Posted on 9/1/11 at 9:50 am to Chicken
quote:
Do they REALLY want to go to the Pac-12?
yes, they really do - very little resistance. There's a little kickback because they cant see the big picture in terms of traveling but I'm sure that can be overcome with a bit of public relations
right now the LHN is the sticking point. The PAC12 will likely insist on re-defining that network into more of a regional Texas/Oklahoma thing. UT is kinda upside-down on it. They're staring at a $300 million pocket-liner as it is, but with the disappointing launch, like I stated in another thread, is it possible they're considering restructuring? Possibly, but from what I hear, very unlikely.
UT is in a mini-tailspin, they need some good PR, as they are being portrayed as the bad guy. They obviously think it's undeserved, but as E Hogan said yesterday morning, if the media is stating this over and over again, there's something to it. The biggest knock on them (and why they have this reputation) is that when conference presidents meet, the word time and time again is that UT is going to do what UT is going to do. They wont come along to get along. Yes, they have one vote, same as everyone else, but they take the figurative "head of the table" and are unwavering in their direction - sometimes to the detriment of the rest of the member schools. It's not completely unfounded, they are arrogant, they just cant see it.
Posted on 9/1/11 at 9:53 am to Smoke Ring
The Pac-12 would welcome OU with open arms and they can basically bring 3 other schools of their choosing
Pac-16
East
OU
OSU
Texas Tech
4th School (Not assuming Texas cause i've heard rumors OU is upset with UT like A&M)
Utah,
Colordao
Arizona
ASU
WEST
USC
UCLA
Cal
Stanford
Oregon
OSU
Wash
Wash St.
I love it. Lets do it.
Pac-16
East
OU
OSU
Texas Tech
4th School (Not assuming Texas cause i've heard rumors OU is upset with UT like A&M)
Utah,
Colordao
Arizona
ASU
WEST
USC
UCLA
Cal
Stanford
Oregon
OSU
Wash
Wash St.
I love it. Lets do it.
This post was edited on 9/1/11 at 9:54 am
Posted on 9/1/11 at 9:56 am to BayouBengals03
quote:
Kansas
Kansas State
Iowa State
Baylor
Texas Tech
Would all be fricked.
Kansas could try to join the Big Ten. With their basketball program, they'd have to find their way into a big conference as long as they can qualify academically.
Mizzou wants in the Big 10 real bad.
Posted on 9/1/11 at 10:00 am to Ball Gravy
But you're not going to get OU by itself. OU cannot politically leave without Okie State (unless the latter moved first) and it simply won't break up its arrangement with Texas (who is tied to Tech).
It's not like you're picking up Tulsa (the school, not the media market). They're average to above-average in football, above-average in men's basketball (and the SEC needs help there), and would give Arkansas a rival somewhat within driving distance.
The SEC needs to cover as much new territory as it can in the coming 16-team model superconference; OU can't come by itself and isn't leaving Texas anyhow, Mizzou isn't coming since it wants a B1G invite, and Kansas/K-State/Iowa State would be far too geographically separated from the rest of the conference.
It's not like you're picking up Tulsa (the school, not the media market). They're average to above-average in football, above-average in men's basketball (and the SEC needs help there), and would give Arkansas a rival somewhat within driving distance.
The SEC needs to cover as much new territory as it can in the coming 16-team model superconference; OU can't come by itself and isn't leaving Texas anyhow, Mizzou isn't coming since it wants a B1G invite, and Kansas/K-State/Iowa State would be far too geographically separated from the rest of the conference.
Posted on 9/1/11 at 10:02 am to Uncle Stu
Stu, how will Texas go from being the dominant member of a conference in terms of influence to being just one of the boys in the Pac-12+?
I can't see the other members of the Pac-xx putting up with them.
Also, I have a hard time thinking they will get any type of recruiting bounce playing in the Pac-xx. I am guessing the kids in the Texas connect more to the SEC than to the Pac-12...
I can't see the other members of the Pac-xx putting up with them.
Also, I have a hard time thinking they will get any type of recruiting bounce playing in the Pac-xx. I am guessing the kids in the Texas connect more to the SEC than to the Pac-12...
Posted on 9/1/11 at 10:04 am to Cdawg
quote:
Kansas could try to join the Big Ten. With their basketball program, they'd have to find their way into a big conference as long as they can qualify academically.
Kansas is an AAU member so that would qualify them for the B1G. However, they have a political problem with K-State probably needing to be included in a package deal (K-State is not AAU).
Posted on 9/1/11 at 10:06 am to Quidam65
quote:Texas and OU have only been in the same conference since 1996...I don't see why they need to be in the same conference when the dust settles.
it simply won't break up its arrangement with Texas (who is tied to Tech).
Posted on 9/1/11 at 10:06 am to Chicken
quote:
Also, I have a hard time thinking they will get any type of recruiting bounce playing in the Pac-xx. I am guessing the kids in the Texas connect more to the SEC than to the Pac-12...
Texas is picking up a ton of people relocating from Cali. There may still be some PAC-12 ties especially with USC/UCLA. But I can't see that big of a recruiting bounce.
Posted on 9/1/11 at 10:07 am to Quidam65
Yep KSU is the ultimate leach imo. they are even worse than okie state and tech. KSU is so bad that i think it'll cause KU to end up in the Big East, or possibly the Mountain West if things get really bad.
Posted on 9/1/11 at 10:07 am to Uncle Stu
If I were a fan of UT, I would hate the idea of joining the Pac10. Distance between schools currently in the Pac10 and UT range from 800 to over 2200 miles. 800 miles is the closest!! How many basketball, baseball games, etc. will the road team fans attend?
Posted on 9/1/11 at 10:09 am to Chicken
quote:
Texas and OU have only been in the same conference since 1996...I don't see why they need to be in the same conference when the dust settles.
Because if Texas gets forced by the Legislature to play (a stronger SEC member) A&M annually (and the precedent has been set in other states, such as in Florida), OU gets sacrificed in the process since no major program (Texas or anyone else) wants two tough OOC games a year.
Posted on 9/1/11 at 10:10 am to Quidam65
quote:
Kansas could try to join the Big Ten. With their basketball program, they'd have to find their way into a big conference as long as they can qualify academically.
Kansas is an AAU member so that would qualify them for the B1G. However, they have a political problem with K-State probably needing to be included in a package deal (K-State is not AAU).
Nebraska is no longer AAU. Big10 talking academics is just lip service.
Posted on 9/1/11 at 10:16 am to Smoke Ring
quote:I found his analysis short on an SEC factor, as in while the Pac12, ACC, Big Ten and Big East are expanding into former Big 12 teams, what is the SEC going to be doing? Just passively watching the clouds blow by? I don't think so... I would expect the SEC to go for at least one more former Big 12 school and make a run for the money doing it.
Kirk knows what's up with UT, and UT runs the Big XII on most issues.
Posted on 9/1/11 at 10:18 am to Chicken
quote:
how will Texas go from being the dominant member of a conference in terms of influence to being just one of the boys in the Pac-12
this is part of the arrogance - they dont see it that way. They figure that they will battle it out in the PAC12 East with OU every single year - and then go to the conference championship game virtually every year.
They may be cocky, but they are not stupid. The writing is on the wall for super-conferences to be formed within the next 10 to 15 years. They dont want to be left out. They would rather be independent, but the football landscape is changing so quick, they cant afford to get left behind. There is little hope that as super-conferences are formed, the big12 would be in any position to garner any leverage with the BCS, the PAC12 may just have the best long-term appeal for a school like Texas.
quote:
I can't see the other members of the Pac-xx putting up with them.
Texas thinks of itself as the Stanford of the mid-west, they always have as long as I've been here. I'm not sure how that would play out in the political arena within the PAC12, but UT may assume that they will have the backing of OU, Tech and Okie St should anything arise.
quote:I think you see a zero-net gain in recruiting. It wont get any better, it wont get any worse than what they're doing now.
I have a hard time thinking they will get any type of recruiting bounce playing in the Pac-xx.
Posted on 9/1/11 at 10:18 am to bona fide
quote:
Nebraska is no longer AAU. Big10 talking academics is just lip service.
They were when they joined.
Outside of Notre Dame every serious B1G expansion candidate is an AAU member (Mizzou, Rutgers, Maryland, Virginia, NC and Duke). Even Pitt would be eligible for consideration as would Texas.
Posted on 9/1/11 at 10:24 am to Quidam65
That is why I say it is only lip service, in the end they will add the universities that make sense financially. First choice is obviously AAU, but as they have shown already it is not the most important criteria.
It was no secret UN was losing their AAU status. Big10 was well aware of the situation in Lincoln.
It was no secret UN was losing their AAU status. Big10 was well aware of the situation in Lincoln.
Posted on 9/1/11 at 10:29 am to JawjaTigah
quote:
I would expect the SEC to go for at least one more former Big 12 school and make a run for the money doing it
At this point, though, what options are left on the table?
Kansas, K-State, and Iowa State are way too geographically distant for serious consideration. Plus Kansas and K-State are joined at the hip.
Texas Tech also has the geographic problem.
Mizzou wants in the B1G and most likely will not consider SEC (and if they did they would bolt tomorrow if the B1G comes calling).
Texas has no interest in the SEC, and the SEC doesn't need their drama mama act anyhow.
Baylor--let's just say that if the SEC wanted another patsy, Rice would at least improve the SEC's academic image.
This leaves OU and Okie State, but OU is joined at the hip with Okie State, plus OU doesn't want to lose its game with Texas.
Okie State is about the only realistic option out there. Legit questions have been raised on this board, though, about how much they really bring to the table. They'll never be OU in terms of prominence (note to Texas, neither will you) but can they bring a solid all-around program that adds to an opponent's SOS? I think they can and if they were to have the long, hard look at themselves which A&M just had about its future, they would see that they can improve themselves apart from OU.
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