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Can someone please explain the “independent state legislature doctrine to me?
Posted on 7/12/22 at 10:47 pm
Posted on 7/12/22 at 10:47 pm
And then explain why the lefties are getting their panties in a wad about it???
6
Posted on 7/12/22 at 10:49 pm to Original Corn Pop
Basically 10th amendment in action while limiting their ability for wacko judges to make shite up
Posted on 7/12/22 at 10:54 pm to Original Corn Pop
Just wait for AggieHank. He loves explaining things to people he thinks are beneath him, which is literally everyone on earth.
Posted on 7/12/22 at 11:02 pm to Original Corn Pop
State legislatures can set aside election results if they don’t like them. That’s the gist.
Posted on 7/12/22 at 11:08 pm to Original Corn Pop
What did I miss? How and why is this coming up now?
Posted on 7/13/22 at 3:12 am to boosiebadazz
State legislators can set aside election results when they find systemic election fraud.
Posted on 7/13/22 at 4:05 am to boosiebadazz
quote:
State legislatures can set aside election results if they don’t like them. That’s the gist.
That would be part of it, but it is also saying state courts and governors have no role to play. For instance, a legislature could have a strongly gerrymandered map or pass voting rules that are in direct violation of the state constitution, and there would be nothing a state court do about it. Governors would not need to sign off on redistricting as they do other laws. In short, as long as a state legislature did not run afoul of federal law, they can do what they want, essentially.
That is the theory as I have read about it in a nutshell. The reason folks are against it is the unchecked power it appears to give state legislatures. While this theory did bubble up within the conservative legal movement, I don’t know that it’s a good thing for conservatives. Some states have laws requiring non-partisan redistricting. I know CO was one from an article I read recently. Many of these states, per the article, have Democrat controlled legislatures and districts that could easily be drawn to squeeze GOP out. At any rate, that is the background and objections to the independent state legislature doctrine I have seen so far.
Posted on 7/13/22 at 5:15 am to LSU2ALA
quote:
direct violation of the state constitution,
Not sure you meant that. They certainly don’t have that authority
This post was edited on 7/13/22 at 5:15 am
Posted on 7/13/22 at 6:20 am to dafif
quote:
quote:direct violation of the state constitution, Not sure you meant that. They certainly don’t have that authority
Well, if the state Supreme Court is powerless to review their actions, then what would you call it? The case that SCOTUS will hear is based on a situation in NC where the state Supreme Court threw out a redistricting map the legislature did because the state SC said it violates the state constitution. The state legislature has brought this case saying the state SC cannot review its actions. If the legislature prevails at SCOTUS, then clearly they can violate the state constitution as their map has done that here per the ultimate authority on NC law, the state SC.
Posted on 7/13/22 at 6:40 am to DeltaFishTiger
quote:What IS the story with the dozens of newbies who feel the need to attack a poster with whom they have never even had a discussion?
Just wait for AggieHank. He loves explaining things to people he thinks are beneath him, which is literally everyone on earth.
Trying to establish your bona fides and earn a Cool Kids Card?
I have no idea specifically what the OP is asking. Generally, in theory, state legislatures are “independent” because the States are SUPPOSED to be sovereign. In practice, the States have not been sovereign for 150 years.
Posted on 7/13/22 at 6:54 am to AggieHank86
quote:
What IS the story with the dozens of newbies who feel the need to attack a poster with whom they have never even had a discussion? Trying to establish your bona fides and earn a Cool Kids Card?
Maybe they have been lurking for a while and have already formed a real opinion. You don’t need a lot of posts or such to do that.
Posted on 7/13/22 at 7:03 am to Original Corn Pop
It appears that their panties only get in a wad when it’s a red state claiming sovereignty from leftist federal policy positions. It was cool for blue states to fight the power of the feds when Trump was in office claiming legitimate federal authority over issues like immigration, treaty negotiations, etc.
Posted on 7/13/22 at 7:03 am to mauser
quote:
State legislators can set aside election results when they find systemic election fraud.
The case coming before SCOTUS has to do with gerrymandering and election maps, not fraud.
Posted on 7/13/22 at 7:11 am to LSU2ALA
quote:.
unchecked power it appears to give state legislatures
There should be no governmental power in the USA that is 'unchecked' - BUT a clearly defined responsibility outlined in the US Constitution should still be the reigning authority.
There should be no way the state Gov or Court to come in and disregard that authority.
Posted on 7/13/22 at 7:14 am to LSUSkip
quote:
What did I miss? How and why is this coming up now?
I’ve seen 4 or 5 articles in the past week predicting the end of democracy because of what the Supreme Court will do with the independent state legislature doctrine. They’re all essentially the same story, which tells me they’re trying to get in front of something.
How the Supreme Court could make it legal to steal the next presidential election
Posted on 7/13/22 at 7:27 am to Original Corn Pop
The articles of the constitution that refer to election of Potus and congress, say that the state legislatures provide rules of selection. (Words to that effect).
It’s insurrection to point that out. So keep that on the DL.
In North Carolina the state Supreme Court threw out the congressional map. Which it is powerless to do.
Thus SCOTUS is about to review the case that it should have reviewed in December 2020 when it was derelict if its constitutional duty and power.
So now- bc the constitution is ABUNDANTLY clear that state courts and state Secretaries of State cannot just ignore state legislatures, the left is freaking the frick out bc SCOTUS is going to have no alternative but to say so out loud.
They are also freaking out bc they just realized that some matters are delegated to the states themselves to decide, and so they can’t control
everything through Supreme Court edicts and Deep State bureaucrats.
They have no understanding of the constitution which was designed to protect us against totalitarians of all stripes. Even ones with feelings who believe men can have babies. They don’t understand it bc they cannot acknowledge to themselves that they are, in fact, totalitarians.
frick leftists.
It’s insurrection to point that out. So keep that on the DL.
In North Carolina the state Supreme Court threw out the congressional map. Which it is powerless to do.
Thus SCOTUS is about to review the case that it should have reviewed in December 2020 when it was derelict if its constitutional duty and power.
So now- bc the constitution is ABUNDANTLY clear that state courts and state Secretaries of State cannot just ignore state legislatures, the left is freaking the frick out bc SCOTUS is going to have no alternative but to say so out loud.
They are also freaking out bc they just realized that some matters are delegated to the states themselves to decide, and so they can’t control
everything through Supreme Court edicts and Deep State bureaucrats.
They have no understanding of the constitution which was designed to protect us against totalitarians of all stripes. Even ones with feelings who believe men can have babies. They don’t understand it bc they cannot acknowledge to themselves that they are, in fact, totalitarians.
frick leftists.
This post was edited on 7/13/22 at 7:28 am
Posted on 7/13/22 at 7:29 am to ChineseBandit58
quote:
There should be no governmental power in the USA that is 'unchecked' - BUT a clearly defined responsibility outlined in the US Constitution should still be the reigning authority. There should be no way the state Gov or Court to come in and disregard that authority.
That is the rub isn’t it? Who checks them? What if their state constitution says no partisan gerrymandering but they do it anyway, the federal courts do not review state law questions almost ever. They defer to the state SC.
I would argue though that the state SC and governor do have a roll if that roll is layer out in the state constitution and state law. The state constitution is created by the legislature. When it states how elections are to be ran, that is the legislature exercising its authority as granted in the US Constitution. They have used that power there. They can delegate it to others. They can’t though do that and then ignore what they have done and do something else. Our system is not supposed to work that way.
Posted on 7/13/22 at 7:31 am to Wednesday
quote:
The articles of the constitution that refer to election of Potus and congress, say that the state legislatures provide rules of selection. (Words to that effect).
It’s insurrection to point that out. So keep that on the DL.
In North Carolina the state Supreme Court threw out the congressional map. Which it is powerless to do.
Thus SCOTUS is about to review the case that it should have reviewed in December 2020 when it was derelict if its constitutional duty and power.
So now- bc the constitution is ABUNDANTLY clear that state courts and state Secretaries of State cannot just ignore state legislatures, the left is freaking the frick out bc SCOTUS is going to have no alternative but to say so out loud.
They are also freaking out bc they just realized that some matters are delegated to the states themselves to decide, and so they can’t control
everything through Supreme Court edicts and Deep State bureaucrats.
They have no understanding of the constitution which was designed to protect us against totalitarians of all stripes. Even ones with feelings who believe men can have babies. They don’t understand it bc they cannot acknowledge to themselves that they are, in fact, totalitarians.
frick leftists.
no further comment
Posted on 7/13/22 at 7:41 am to Wednesday
quote:
In North Carolina the state Supreme Court threw out the congressional map. Which it is powerless to do.
Wednesday, if the state constitution, which is created and amended by the state legislature, states there can be no partisan gerrymandering and the legislature proceeds to do that, can the state SC do nothing about? Isn’t the legislature using its authority to control elections when it does the constitution?
Put another way, Marbury vs. Madison says that SCOTUS is the ultimate authority on the US Constitution. Are we supposed to believe there is no ultimate authority on state law? How else would legislatures exercise their authority except through state law? Is there no one to interpret if they do it properly?
Posted on 7/13/22 at 7:54 am to Wednesday
I've been happily married for 30 years, but I think I'm in love with Wednesday.
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