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Started By
Message
re: Question For Golfers/Golf Fans
Posted on 8/9/20 at 11:46 pm to GeauxTigersLee
Posted on 8/9/20 at 11:46 pm to GeauxTigersLee
quote:
Those “officials” with each group are volunteers, and it’s very common for them to get the scores wrong. Shot link is the best alternative, but again run by volunteers and they get it wrong.
Only the leaders and popular players have cameras or audiences around for every shot.
PGA Tour events are largely dependent on volunteers and are not setup to keep official scoring across a 75 acre golf course.
I didn't realize the majority were volunteers if that is true (not calling you a liar at all...I've just never heard that, but do actually believe you).
Again, if true (which I accept it is), that is the first answer that makes sense.
That said, the PGA is too big and the money is too great for them not to be able to put an official PGA scoring official with every group. That really is a very minor expense in the big picture.
This post was edited on 8/9/20 at 11:48 pm
3
Posted on 8/10/20 at 12:35 am to GusAU
quote:
That said, the PGA is too big and the money is too great for them not to be able to put an official PGA scoring official with every group. That really is a very minor expense in the big picture.
It's understandable that most folks would think this, it sounds reasonable enough right? However, it gets pretty difficult and wasteful from a financial and logistical aspect when you break down the numbers. Average PGA tournament has around roughly 40 to 50 groups playing in the early rounds every time depending on field. Even if you made scoring officials pull doubleheaders ,which may not even be possible, you'd have an additional 20-25 people to pay, transport, lodge, etc. every single week. This would all of a sudden become a pretty big expense when you consider the PGA Tour basically plays year round. It is an even bigger staffing and cost hurdle if you did that in all the other subtours owned by the PGA Tour (i.e, Korn Ferry Tour, Champions Tour, PGA Tour Latinoamerica, PGA Tour China, etc.). When you add those in, you're talking about close to a 100 scorers needed for a single week. In addition, you want groups moving as quickly through the course as you can. Tour rounds are already long. Adding in an official scorer who will have to traverse back and forth across a hole with a group to see shots and keep an official score would make that take even longer and hurt you on staying on pace and within the TV window.
The massive undertaking just this simple task alone would take is why each tournament relies so much on volunteers as someone correctly noted above. I would imagine that in any given week, the tournament has less than two dozen official PGA Tour staff onsite (with some exceptions such as The Players Championship which is basically at their HQ). All of a sudden, you're more than doubling their staff presence just on officials to do what the players already do pretty effectively.
Now, I ask you. Which is easier? Adding in all the additional staff, costs, and logistical challenges outlined above or making the individual players keep their score and that of their playing partners (with caddies there to help be an additional check/balance)?
Posted on 8/10/20 at 12:53 am to BoomerJam
quote:
BoomerJam
Honestly, the money the Tour makes is so much that the expense we are talking about is minuscule (and tax deductible). Even if you had to use volunteers, there is no reason to be the ONLY major professional sport to require the participants to keep their own score.
ETA: It will eventually change...I predict within the next five years.
This post was edited on 8/10/20 at 12:55 am
Posted on 8/10/20 at 1:03 am to GusAU
I think what I was always told is that the pros pay with the same rules that you and I and everyone on between play with.
I'm sure they could do it, but that's part of the charm of the game.
I'm sure they could do it, but that's part of the charm of the game.
Posted on 8/10/20 at 1:17 am to noonan
quote:
I'm sure they could do it, but that's part of the charm of the game.
Maybe we just look at it differently, but I've always thought the charm was the skill level of the game's top players.....in a sport that people can play until their 70s-80s.
Posted on 8/10/20 at 6:24 am to GusAU
The biggest matter is to protect the field...and the PGA Tour allows the players to handle score keeping matters out of the public eye.
I keep your score, you keep mine....I protect the field from any questionable scoring or ruling matters you may try to pull.
If we disagree, we will get it ironed out in the locker room....and if it flagrant, other pros will have my back.
You can’t have some retired guy keeping score for a pro. You have a network:
Honor
Integrity
Score keeping by fellow pro
Seasoned rules officials that have deep ties to high level golf
If you make questionable decisions, the pros will handle you in the locker room out of the eye of th public
I keep your score, you keep mine....I protect the field from any questionable scoring or ruling matters you may try to pull.
If we disagree, we will get it ironed out in the locker room....and if it flagrant, other pros will have my back.
You can’t have some retired guy keeping score for a pro. You have a network:
Honor
Integrity
Score keeping by fellow pro
Seasoned rules officials that have deep ties to high level golf
If you make questionable decisions, the pros will handle you in the locker room out of the eye of th public
Posted on 8/10/20 at 7:40 am to GusAU
Doesn't help that I have almost double the amount of shots to remember but I would be absolutely fricked if I had anything riding on an accurate scorecard and I had cameras on me 24/7.
Posted on 8/10/20 at 8:22 am to GusAU
I meant the entire game.
I'm not saying they shouldn't do it. Just why I think they don't.
I'm not saying they shouldn't do it. Just why I think they don't.
Posted on 8/10/20 at 8:52 am to GusAU
quote:There are 52 groups with 3 players each on Thursday/Friday. It's cost prohibitive to have 52 people who work for the PGA to travel from event to event just to keep an official score when the current model works fine. That's just on the PGA Tour, where there is alot of money involved.
That said, the PGA is too big and the money is too great for them not to be able to put an official PGA scoring official with every group. That really is a very minor expense in the big picture.
When you get down the the Korn Ferry tour events, you have less staff/volunteers and you can't do that. The same goes for all other professional events on lower tours (Asian, Challenge) not to mention the mini-tour events (such as the Gateway Tour).
It sounds good in theory, it just isn't practical.
This post was edited on 8/10/20 at 8:53 am
Posted on 8/10/20 at 9:02 am to GusAU
quote:No worries, none of that is really public unless you're involved. This is true for all events, and even for the Tour Championship at East Lake. You can see here where they have volunteer opportunities for ShotLink, Walking Scorers, and a ton of other things. Event for a small field event like that, there are hundreds of volunteers to carry on the event.
I didn't realize the majority were volunteers if that is true (not calling you a liar at all...I've just never heard that, but do actually believe you).
quote:
Walking Scorers
Record the scores and statistics of play on a hand-held device during the tournament rounds. Shifts are outside in direct sunlight and the elements.
quote:
SHOTLink
Record and transmit shot locations of professionals to the SHOTLink system, while stationed greenside or at fairway landing zones. Transmission achieved via the use of hand held palm pilots and stationery tripod cameras. Required to work all four days of competition. Shifts are outside in direct sunlight and the elements.
Posted on 8/10/20 at 10:58 am to GusAU
quote:
will eventually change...I predict within the next five years.
I really don’t think it will. I think it is part of “the game” just one more thing you have to do when you play at the top level. I know “that’s the way it has always been done” is a dumb reason to not change something, but I think golf and baseball are the two sports that will stick to that motto the most.
Also, keeping official score of over 160 golfers playing at the same time actually would be very cost restrictive.
This post was edited on 8/10/20 at 11:00 am
Posted on 8/10/20 at 1:58 pm to Jack Ruby
Yep ! He most certainly did !
Posted on 8/10/20 at 2:26 pm to Jack Ruby
quote:
Didn't DJ sign a "wrong" scorecard at Whislting Straights and get DQ'd for the "potbunker" shot?
Didn’t get DQ’d. Grounded his club in a bunker which is a 2 stroke penalty. Instead of making the playoff, he finished 2 shots back.
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