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re: an angle ...
Posted on 2/19/10 at 12:30 pm to Nuts4LSU
Posted on 2/19/10 at 12:30 pm to Nuts4LSU
quote:
If it's so bad, then why does Miles want the job? Why doesn't he just resign and go to one of those other schools who are knocking down his door?
Because he likes it here and Michigan hasnt fired RR yet?
quote:
This argument for propping up Miles has no more validity now than it's had the last hundred or so times.
It has about as much validity as the argument that Miles sucks because no other team has offered him a job.
quote:
trotted out to prop up a failing coach.
Miles isn't a failing coach
This post was edited on 2/19/10 at 12:32 pm
0
Posted on 2/19/10 at 1:55 pm to Nuts4LSU
quote:
it's been trotted out to prop up a failing coach.
And there in lies the error in your thought process.
No sane, reasonable person would see the unmatched or almost unmatched success, by LSU standards, of the last 5 yrs and equate that with "a failing coach" or equate a 3rd place in the SEC, a New Day Bowl invite, and a national ranking as "a failing coach", but you do.
I call BS on your "failing coach" claim, but continue on with your bitch and moan fest.
This post was edited on 2/19/10 at 2:10 pm
Posted on 2/19/10 at 3:56 pm to Lonnie4LSU
quote:
No sane, reasonable person would see the unmatched or almost unmatched success, by LSU standards, of the last 5 yrs and equate that with "a failing coach" or equate a 3rd place in the SEC, a New Day Bowl invite, and a national ranking as "a failing coach", but you do.
That's because you are looking only at the superficial and not paying attention to anything else. In theory, you could put a mop bucket on the sideline as head coach and the team could go undefeated, but that wouldn't mean the mop bucket was doing a great job of coaching.
Mike Archer had a great record in his first year (10-1-1), but ridiculously stupid play calling cost us a win in the game we tied. Anyone who pointed that out was scoffed at by someone like you who would simply say "10-1-1". He won an SEC title in his second season, but that second year, you could see that LSU football was slipping. Mind-numbingly stupid clock management in a loss to Ohio State, a 44-3 shellacking by Miami, a listless performance in the bowl and an overall 8-4 record foretold the coming collapse. But of course, pointing that out was sure to generate a retort of "SEC champs!" from someone like you. At that time, a person like you who only looks at the surface saw nothing but a coach with an 18-5-1 overall record, an SEC championship and a top-5 finish in two seasons. But someone who knew what they were seeing beyond just the superficial numbers knew that Archer was losing the team, that the team was losing its edge and that the talent level was dropping off.
In 1998, after the Georgia game, most people like you still saw Gerry DiNardo as a very successful coach of a program that was on solid ground. But those who looked further than just the superficial numbers saw a defense that was crumbling, a coach who didn't know what to do about it and a program headed for trouble.
Looking solely at the superficial overall numbers, and not even paying attention to the trend when doing that, gives you, and others like you, the mistaken impression that Miles is a good coach and that LSU football is in good shape. But seeing deeper than just the surface reveals a coach and a program in trouble. You fail even to consider the gold mine that was LSU football when he arrived.
If a coach took over one of the then-current and all-time bottom 10 programs in college football, won only two games a year in his first three years, then bumped it up to 5 and 4 wins in the fourth and fifth years, would you consider him a bad coach because of his overall poor record? Or would you think he's doing a good job because the win totals were improved in the last two years over the first three? Where you start, and the trend you take from there, are very important. So is how long the school waits to see if the failing coach can turn it around. So very few ever do, and so many schools see their programs driven deeper into mediocrity waiting for it, that it's amazing that schools still do it.
Some don't, though. Florida didn't in 2004. Alabama didn't in 2006. Ohio State didn't in 2000. In all three cases, acting fast (BEFORE the coach finished running the program into the ground) led to almost immediate success and a national championship within three years. Others, like LSU in 1989 and 1998, waited. And paid a price. We are apparently content to add 2008 and 2009 to that list of examples.
When a coach first takes over a program, his results are pretty much dictated by what he inherits. Sure, it's possible to completely frick up even a great situation and do badly when inheriting great talent if you're an absolutely horrible coach. To his credit, Miles didn't do that. Like Mike Archer, Larry Coker and a zillion others before him, Miles managed to be successful for a while when inheriting a program that was already successful. On the other side of the coin, it's also possible for an unbelievably great coach to take over a program in horrible shape and turn it around immediately. But the vast majority of the time, when a new coach takes over, things stay pretty much the same for a little while at first, then begin to change over time according to the quality of the coach.
When the fourth and fifth years are significantly worse than the first three, that is usually a sign of serious trouble. Maybe in anomalous cases, you could have a fluke that causes a 2-year blip before the whole picture is in place and success follows. But can anyone really say that about LSU going into 2010? Can you really look at LSU and think we're poised to explode back onto the national title scene in 2010? When is the last time we went into a season with this many serious question marks? Both lines? Quarterback, receivers and running backs? Plus the others? Have you seen a more shaky situation at LSU going into a season since 1999 or 2000?
This coach is not getting the job done. Like DiNardo, he's signing highly rated classes, but also like DiNardo, he's not getting as much out of them as he should and he's losing an alarming number of them to attrition. Yes, he's had more success than DiNardo, and his failures have been less extreme, but he took over after Nick Saban while DiNardo took over after Curley Hallman. That's really the biggest difference between them right now.
And as pointed out above, you look solely at 3rd place in the SEC and a New Year's Day bowl and see success, while overlooking the fact that in two years we haven't developed a QB, the lines on both sides of the ball have basically disappeared, idiotic clock management has been a persistent problem that is costing us games, and each side of the ball has seen an almost complete collapse within the past two years due to horrible hiring decisions at the coordinator level.
Miles is failing and will destroy our program. He just hasn't finished the job yet. Some want him stopped before he does, while others seem hell-bent on letting him do it.
Posted on 2/19/10 at 4:18 pm to Nuts4LSU
quote:
Miles is failing and will destroy our program. He just hasn't finished the job yet. Some want him stopped before he does, while others seem hell-bent on letting him do it.
It's amazing that he's been able to accomplish so much considering he's no better than Archer, Hallman, or Dinardo.
Posted on 2/19/10 at 4:21 pm to Choctaw
quote:
It's amazing that he's been able to accomplish so much considering he's no better than Archer, Hallman, or Dinardo.
He's definitely better than Hallman, probably better than Archer. DiNardo? Hard to say. The circumstances were so drastically different for them that it may not ever be possible to get a valid comparison.
Posted on 2/19/10 at 4:26 pm to Nuts4LSU
quote:
The circumstances were so drastically different for them that it may not ever be possible to get a valid comparison.
Honestly...i dont give a shite about any comparisons. I was just replying to your post. Although Miles has never had a losing season.
LSU wins the West in '10
Posted on 2/19/10 at 4:27 pm to Choctaw
quote:
LSU wins the West in '10
I agree. But we're talking about football, not baseball.
Posted on 2/19/10 at 4:28 pm to Choctaw
quote:
he's been able to accomplish so much
Yes. Systematically dismantling a top 5 powerhouse is quite an accomplishment. Larry Coker and Les Miles should be proud.
Posted on 2/19/10 at 4:29 pm to Nuts4LSU
quote:
I agree. But we're talking about football, not baseball.
fine....LSU wins the West in football and baseball.
Posted on 2/19/10 at 4:32 pm to Nuts4LSU
quote:
Yes. Systematically dismantling a top 5 powerhouse is quite an accomplishment. Larry Coker and Les Miles should be proud.
1. Nothing has been "systematically dismantled". Exaggerate much?
2. LSU was not a top 5 team when Miles arrived.
3. Coker had players getting arrested, shot, and killed. Thats why his program went to shite. Hence the term "thug U". When Miles starts having off the field issues like Coker then start making comparisons.
Posted on 2/19/10 at 5:42 pm to Nuts4LSU
Nuts4LSU would recommend firing Urban Meyer now. The program at Florida has obviously declined from 2008 to 2009.
Posted on 2/19/10 at 5:44 pm to bobby bouchet
quote:You just lost half the board.......
This takes the ability to think past your next bowel movement
Posted on 2/19/10 at 5:45 pm to bobby bouchet
quote:
Nuts4LSU would recommend firing Urban Meyer now. The program at Florida has obviously declined from 2008 to 2009.
A) Not significantly.
B) Meyer built whatever it was 2008 instead of inheriting it from someone else.
C) 2008 to 2009 is one year, not two.
D) 13-1 is better than any record Les Miles has ever had.
E) Surely you can do better than this?
Posted on 2/19/10 at 5:56 pm to Choctaw
quote:
1. Nothing has been "systematically dismantled". Exaggerate much?
A team noted for strong, physical play on both sides of the line now has no line to speak of on either side.
A team noted for being intense and physically dominating in the late stages of games is now routinely kicked around in the fourth quarter.
A team that hasn't entered a season ranked lower than 15th in 10 years is now a virtual cinch to be ranked outside the top 20 or not ranked at all.
That's a systematic dismantling if there ever was one.
quote:
2. LSU was not a top 5 team when Miles arrived.
It was a top 5 program, even though it did not finish in the top 5 that very year. Also, it's hard to consider the Capital One Bowl against Iowa as any kind of indication of what the program was like. Having to play under a lame duck coach who had already quit, with our best QB suspended for the first three quarters, was hardly a normal circumstance, yet we still had it won until the illegal and fluky hail mary at the end. That's all that stood in the way of a 10-2, top 10 finish. Recruiting had been going strong for several years in a row, also. LSU entered the 2005 season ranked near the top 5 in preseason despite all the question marks surrounding any team playing under a first-year coach who has never coached at a big time program. Everyone everywhere considered LSU an elite, top-level powerhouse when Les Miles took over.
quote:
Coker had players getting arrested, shot, and killed.
We didn't have any get shot or killed, but there was a definite thug mentality going on during 2007 and the offseason afterward.
quote:
When Miles starts having off the field issues like Coker then start making comparisons.
Off the field issues don't mean diddly compared to what happens on the field. If Coker had kept winning, he would still be there no matter how many of his players got arrested, shot or killed. But still, even if you had a point here, is it really that Miles is some kind of strict disciplinarian? You're kidding, right?
quote:
Thats why his program went to shite.
His program went to shite because he wasn't coaching it very well, they started losing and people weren't scared of them any more. Sound familiar?
Posted on 2/19/10 at 6:03 pm to Nuts4LSU
You're wasting your e-breath.
Regardless of the factual content of your posts, this is not the time for it.
Regardless of the factual content of your posts, this is not the time for it.
Posted on 2/19/10 at 6:18 pm to Nuts4LSU
quote:
A) Not significantly.
B) Meyer built whatever it was 2008 instead of inheriting it from someone else.
C) 2008 to 2009 is one year, not two.
D) 13-1 is better than any record Les Miles has ever had.
A) They went from kicking the shite out of everyone but Ole Miss to barely beating a lot of the SEC, and getting the shite kicked out of them by bama. Their offense suffered and Timmy T couldn't cut it under center. Why let it decline more?
B) Zook recruited well. Meyer inherited that.
C) Again - why let it decline more? You are the one that wants to nip it in the bud before it gets too far gone.
D) But it isn't better than any record that Urban Meyer has ever had, and it includes the thrashing by bama. It is a decline. Nip it in the bud.
See where I'm going? Let the man fail before calling him a failure. The UT equivalent of rantards wanted to fire Mack Brown before 2005. People can improve. No need to label him a tragic failure due to a few improvable faults. If everyone operated like that, you and I wouldn't have jobs.
Posted on 2/19/10 at 7:17 pm to wahoocs
quote:
You're wasting your e-breath.
Regardless of the factual content of your posts, this is not the time for it.
No shite. It's February for crying out loud. Maybe Nuts thinks his arguments will make some difference somewhere.
Posted on 2/19/10 at 7:34 pm to Rocket
I'm sure it's therapeutic.
I often type such things and rarely hit submit.
I often type such things and rarely hit submit.
Posted on 2/19/10 at 7:37 pm to wahoocs
What do you think about our defense in 2010?
Posted on 2/19/10 at 7:45 pm to Rocket
I only see one obvious upgrade, and that's at RDE.
I don't see the loss of Chad Jones being all that crucial to our success. Having a hard time seeing any significant improvement during the course of the season for the guys that gained experience.
5 out of our front 7 will be essentially expected to produce with little to no experience at their position. The secondary should be solid.
Looking back, it's really phenomenal how well the scoring defense performed. I think they were the college version of the Saints, without all the turnovers.
I don't see the loss of Chad Jones being all that crucial to our success. Having a hard time seeing any significant improvement during the course of the season for the guys that gained experience.
5 out of our front 7 will be essentially expected to produce with little to no experience at their position. The secondary should be solid.
Looking back, it's really phenomenal how well the scoring defense performed. I think they were the college version of the Saints, without all the turnovers.
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