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Message
re: Coaching record debate
Posted on 11/18/09 at 2:44 pm to tigerbait2
Posted on 11/18/09 at 2:44 pm to tigerbait2
quote:
Saban had to rebuild and change a culture. What
would you people stop with this crap? There is a long list of future NFL players that saban inherited.
If y'all want to talk like this you might as well say saban was also declining and miles turned it around.
That is the type of logic y'all have.
0
Posted on 11/18/09 at 2:46 pm to tigerbait2
-----Saban had to rebuild and change a culture. What miles has done has been enormous but would he have been as successful as saban was in turning this thing around? Maybe maybe not ----
Possibly Saban is the type to turn around a bogged-down program, and Miles is the type to maintain one?
A better question might be " would Saban have been as successful as Miles in keeping the program a top one?"
Possibly Saban is the type to turn around a bogged-down program, and Miles is the type to maintain one?
A better question might be " would Saban have been as successful as Miles in keeping the program a top one?"
Posted on 11/18/09 at 2:51 pm to mstiger
quote:
If you can't compare records and win percentages what can you compare?
Coach A has a 12-0 team (talent-wise) and goes 9-3 with it.
Coach B has a 0-12 team (talent-wise) and goes 7-5 with it.
Which is the better coach?
Posted on 11/18/09 at 2:53 pm to kgcTigerFan
100 wins in 10 years is not to shabby!
Posted on 11/18/09 at 3:05 pm to Krypto
Wow so much anger on this board. You guys need to chill out a little. What I took from the OP is that you can't compare apples to oranges. Things may have been different either way, so who cares. Saban may or may not have had the same record as Les and vice versa, but one thing is certain. QUIT comparing the two. They are very different and coached with different teams and competition.
PS - there is nothing wrong with criticizing coaching descisions. This is the TIGER RANT correct?
PS - there is nothing wrong with criticizing coaching descisions. This is the TIGER RANT correct?
Posted on 11/18/09 at 3:06 pm to TX Tiger
quote:
Coach A has a 12-0 team (talent-wise) and goes 9-3 with it.
How do know who has 12-0 talent or 0-12 talent.
The polls, we all know they are 100% corect.
Posted on 11/18/09 at 3:10 pm to Tiger_n_ATL
quote:
His record looks good, but do his teams?
Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems to me there's a double standard applied to Les Miles. When Alabama "wins ugly" in a game that was much closer than people expected (and it has happened several times over the past 2 years), the emphasis is placed on the "win" part and Saban gets full credit for the win. When LSU "wins ugly", the emphasis is put on the "ugly" part and Les Miles is criticised as a bad coach.
quote:
We have the 107th ranked offense in the country. Spin that.
Can't spin that into anything other than what it is: pretty pitiful. But it's one year. A year in which it's got to be obvious to everyone that Miles and Crowton are trying to protect a young, inexperienced Jordan Jefferson from the kind of psychological mauling that Jarret Lee suffered last year. They realize they tossed Lee to the wolves when he wasn't ready and they're determined not to make the same mistake with Jefferson.
The result is a simple, conservative offense that every good defensive coach in the SEC (and there are several) will know how to defend. They fill up the box to stop the run, play tight coverage on the short and intermediate routes and dare LSU to try to go vertical on them.
I would like to see LSU take the dare, which might open up some shorter routes and help the running game, but I understand that Les Miles has to decide what his QB can or can't do at this juncture.
Maybe that's the "process" he's going through. Maybe he feels the long-term development of his QB is more important than winning "pretty" today.
Posted on 11/18/09 at 3:28 pm to Tiger_n_ATL
quote:
His record looks good
You bet and that's cause it is good and even more, it's the best winning % ever at LSU.
Knock it all you want, but it doesn't get any better than the best.
Coach is not God like, but I am respectful of the results he has provided me as an LSU fan. I will back his play just as I did for Nick till the time comes that I can't. That time hasn't come yet for me, if it has for you...so be it.
Posted on 11/18/09 at 3:29 pm to kgcTigerFan
quote:
It doesn't take much observation, reason, analysis to know that LSU could do much worse than Miles either.
Stating the obvious
quote:
Don't tell me we need to replace Les Miles as coach until you can offer some suggestion as to who you would replace him with. What "better" coach do you have in mind? And what makes you think he would want to come to a place where he will be vilified if he doesn't produce SEC and national championships every year?
I could list multiple coaches to replace Miles with, none of whom you would agree with because you do not agree with my reasoning. I could not tell you their feelings on whether they would pass on an opportunity because they might be vilified by fans. If you know coaches inner thoughts, do tell but don't bring indistinguishable reasons into the process.
quote:
By the way, Saban's SEC record at LSU, which you didn't post, was 28-12 (virtually identical to Miles) and his bowl record was 3-2.
By the way, I didn't post Saban's record because I didn't mention nor compare Miles to Saban in my post.
Posted on 11/18/09 at 3:31 pm to dmbear
quote:
Coach A has a 12-0 team (talent-wise) and goes 9-3 with it.
How do know who has 12-0 talent or 0-12 talent.
The polls, we all know they are 100% corect.
You watch one or two games sober.
Posted on 11/18/09 at 3:36 pm to TX Tiger
quote:
Coach A has a 12-0 team (talent-wise) and goes 9-3 with it.
Coach B has a 0-12 team (talent-wise) and goes 7-5 with it.
Which is the better coach?
I assume the answer you're looking for is Coach B because he's increased the efficiency of his team.
Posted on 11/18/09 at 4:10 pm to Trender
quote:
I could list multiple coaches to replace Miles with, none of whom you would agree with because you do not agree with my reasoning. I could not tell you their feelings on whether they would pass on an opportunity because they might be vilified by fans. If you know coaches inner thoughts, do tell but don't bring indistinguishable reasons into the process.
It is you who are bringing "indistinguishable reasons into the process." You are right that I don't agree with your reasoning, perhaps because you offered no semblance of reasoning. Your position that it "doesn't take much observation, reason, analysis to know that LSU could do much better than Miles" speaks for itself. Perhaps if you had shared some part of the little reasoning or analysis upon which you want us to believe you relied for this statement, I could have responded more directly to it.
My point, which you say is merely "stating the obvious" is that a general feeling that there must be some "better" coach out there somewhere is not a good reason to replace a coach who's record, while far from perfect, is actually quite good.
The historical perspective I offered was given in the spirit of the adage that those who do no learn from history are doomed to repeat it. I don't want to see LSU go down that particular self-destructive "from the frying pan to the fire" road again. Your unnamed "multiple choices" to replace Les Miles are just fantasies at this point. I'll take a real-life Les Miles, with his winning record and proven commitment to LSU, over some unnamed fantasy any day.
I don't say that Les Miles is the greatest coach in college football. I certainly don't suggest that he has a job for life. If the team's performance drops on a consistent basis over the next year or two, or fails to live up to reasonably expected levels, there may come a time when, for the good of the program, LSU might have to consider a change.
But that time has not yet come, at least not for me. I believe Les Miles deserves the chance to show that the difficulties of the the past 2 years are an exception and that he can return LSU to a position of challenging for, and winning, championships.
Posted on 11/18/09 at 4:22 pm to kgcTigerFan
Good post.
You might even say that Miles did an analysis and saw that if his QB doesn't throw an NCAA record number of Pick 6s, that he would likely have won several of the 5 games he lost.
So he takes his new, as of yet unruined, QB and ensures that he will NOT lose games that way. Maybe it will be ugly, and maybe the fans will bitch and moan like the world was ending, but in the end he can have a respectable to very good record which sets him up in the polls to make a run the next year with a more seasoned QB.
That is what I see when I watch the games. But I also know how he was a couple of years ago, when the offensive philosophy bordered on reckless. So I don't see how folks arrive at the idea that he got a whole new outlook on the game of football.
You might even say that Miles did an analysis and saw that if his QB doesn't throw an NCAA record number of Pick 6s, that he would likely have won several of the 5 games he lost.
So he takes his new, as of yet unruined, QB and ensures that he will NOT lose games that way. Maybe it will be ugly, and maybe the fans will bitch and moan like the world was ending, but in the end he can have a respectable to very good record which sets him up in the polls to make a run the next year with a more seasoned QB.
That is what I see when I watch the games. But I also know how he was a couple of years ago, when the offensive philosophy bordered on reckless. So I don't see how folks arrive at the idea that he got a whole new outlook on the game of football.
Posted on 11/18/09 at 6:24 pm to Trender
quote:
IMO, it doesn't take much observation, reason, analysis to know that LSU could do much better than Miles.
It also doesn't take much observation, reason, or analysis to say Saban would have won 3 MNC in the last 5 years had he stayed - but that also still doesn't make it true (or false).
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