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re: Do you consider Miles aggressive? Unorthodox?
Posted on 8/26/09 at 9:22 am to SlowFlowPro
Posted on 8/26/09 at 9:22 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:No, that was your stance (and, allegedly, Baloo's).
so your stance is that aggression can't be calculated?
quote:
i never said that
quote:Okay, so what does that comment mean, exactly? Why is "calculated" mentioned in an assertion that Les' playcalls are not aggressive?
baloo, for instance, doesn't think that the fakes are "aggressive," if memory serves. he think they're calculated. i agree
1
Posted on 8/26/09 at 9:22 am to Tiger_n_ATL
quote:
All "good" SEC teams are so evenly matched with LSU in terms of talent that there really isn't going to be any "separation" from them
but other SEC teams separate
hell even UTenn in 2007 beat the dogshit out of UGA and they weren't even that good (and people were jumping on UGA for the national title at the end of that year)
UF put a pounding on many SEC teams last year
Posted on 8/26/09 at 9:23 am to SlowFlowPro
I think he's aggressive when he and Crowton know they truly have an advantage, otherwise he's not going to put too much risk into the offense when a base offense should be good enough to win. We've come from behind multiple times in Miles tenure by running the ball most of the time. If he is 85% sure that a running game will make up a 10 point deficit, then there's no reason to air it out unless Crowton sees a formation he can exploit.
Posted on 8/26/09 at 9:26 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:Any given Sunday, to be sure. But the fact holds true, MOST of the time, they are all evenly matched.
but other SEC teams separate
Posted on 8/26/09 at 9:26 am to King Joey
quote:
No, that was your stance (and, allegedly, Baloo's).
calculated as in high % plays that seem aggressive, but really aren't. the potential reward outweighs the risk
aggression can be without calculation. i agree
but they're not separate concepts
look at USC. their offense is pro-style, but they are really aggressive with screens and deep passes
Posted on 8/26/09 at 9:27 am to SlowFlowPro
I think Miles has an idea of how he wants to win and most people just dont understand it.
Miles wants to control the clock by running the ball and playing good defense. He doesn't mind the big plays, but thats not exactly what he tries to do. He likes to wear opposing teams down and win the games in the end.
For example, in 07 against Flordia, we made all those 4rth downs. Maybe it wasnt luck, maybe it was because Miles had Flordia wore down, and CUM blew his teams wad while Miles was planning for the victory. The way they used to do it at Michigan.
Miles wants to control the clock by running the ball and playing good defense. He doesn't mind the big plays, but thats not exactly what he tries to do. He likes to wear opposing teams down and win the games in the end.
For example, in 07 against Flordia, we made all those 4rth downs. Maybe it wasnt luck, maybe it was because Miles had Flordia wore down, and CUM blew his teams wad while Miles was planning for the victory. The way they used to do it at Michigan.
Posted on 8/26/09 at 9:31 am to TheDoc
quote:
All of the games are going to be close and nail biters
quote:Yes, we have done it before. But it doesn't happen a lot. Supporting SFP's point that Miles is not "aggressive". While I agree with his major premise here, his argument becomes diluted when he starts lumping in other arguments (such as "unorthodox", which was my original thought), into an aggressive playcalling argument.
so LSU has never beaten the pants off a regular season SEC team?
Miles is definitely unorthodox in his style, but not really that aggressive in his playcalling, two completely different arguments.
Posted on 8/26/09 at 9:31 am to Tiger_n_ATL
quote:
But the fact holds true, MOST of the time, they are all evenly matched.
most of the time? definitely
but we have none in miles' era i don't think
Posted on 8/26/09 at 9:32 am to Tiger_n_ATL
quote:
Miles is definitely unorthodox in his style
I may have missed it somewhere...please define
Posted on 8/26/09 at 9:33 am to ballz
quote:
Miles wants to control the clock by running the ball and playing good defense.
uh...who doesn't understand that?
that's what i'm saying
quote:
and CUM blew his teams wad
dude
UF was inches away from winning a few times on that drive. it's not like they were helpless on that last drive
Posted on 8/26/09 at 9:33 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:Against the upper tier SEC teams, I would agree, and the facts support, that we don't have any "big" wins (by 20 points or more). But if you are waiting for this to happen, you are going to be disappointed more often than not.
but we have none in miles' era i don't think
Posted on 8/26/09 at 9:34 am to Tiger_n_ATL
quote:
Miles is definitely unorthodox in his style
how is a base philosophy of classic big10 football unorthodox?
Posted on 8/26/09 at 9:34 am to SlowFlowPro
Offensively, I would say that we are aggressive. A lot, most coaches, including the former one, would have put the cuffs on JL last year. But I think in many situations, despite the results, we continued to fire away and at least attempt to do what was necessary to win, instead of playing it safe and hoping the other team would hand us the game.
Most of Miles' much talked about 4th down gambles, though they have mostly been the correct mathematical play, are clearly considered aggressive and even risky by other coaches. (Most people don't understand that you have to take a hit on 16 when the dealer's showing a face card, Miles clearly does.) It's debatable whether what's merely smart should also be called aggressive.
One difference between Miles and previous coaches is that we through deep more when other teams load up on us, though maybe not enough. In 2006, I would say that we were somewhat conservative conservative given that we had a senior QB and two first round NFL draft picks, but I think that Miles was going along with Jimbo Fisher more than anything. (I don't there's anyway that this team scores 3 points at Auburn with the Wizard at the helm). Still, the passing game does seem to be bogged down a little with stop routes where the receivers remain stationery, facing the quarterback and the entire screen repretoire.
In terms of aggressiveness overall, I would not put Miles in the top 10% of coaches, but definitely in the top quarter. Relative to the coaches that I've seen at LSU during my lifetime, however, (Saban, Dinardo, Hallman, Archer, Arnsparger, Stovall, and Maclendon), Miles is by far the most aggressive coach.
While it's true that Pelini was less aggressive than Saban in terms of blitzes, I never felt like Saban was gambling with those. We certainly began to blitz more when he felt comfortable with Webster, Laron et al. then when we were playing with Hookfin. Again, once you're confident in your secondary is it really aggressive to bring a disguised blitz or is that just smart football??
Posted on 8/26/09 at 9:37 am to Tiger_n_ATL
quote:
Against the upper tier SEC teams, I would agree, and the facts support, that we don't have any "big" wins (by 20 points or more).
if you look back on it, this has been more of a defensive issue, than an offensive one...
Posted on 8/26/09 at 9:38 am to triplesauce
quote:
A lot, most coaches, including the former one, would have put the cuffs on JL last year.
well saban was not exactly aggressive on offense and i don't think anyone is arguing that
however when we did put the cuffs on JL, our offense went to pure shite
Posted on 8/26/09 at 9:38 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:If that is not true of aggression, then it is always a bad thing. It is never a good idea to make a choice where the potential for reward does not outweigh the risks. To say that a call is not aggressive because it is calculated is to say that aggression and calculation are two distinctive characteristics.
calculated as in high % plays that seem aggressive, but really aren't. the potential reward outweighs the risk
quote:Then you should not have agreed with Baloo's comment, which suggests they are.
aggression can be without calculation. i agree
but they're not separate concepts
The difference between "aggressive" and "conservative" is not in whether or not you calculate potential for risks and rewards. It is in how you measure those potentials. The conservative coach places more weight on avoiding negative outcomes. The aggressive coach places more weight on achieving positive outcomes. But in both cases the risk/reward analysis is the same: if the potential for reward does not outweigh the potential for risk, then it is a bad decision in either approach. To suggest that Miles calls are calculated offers zero insight into whether or not they are aggressive. Unless you insist that aggression cannot be calculated. If you do not believe that, then the inclusion of the word "calculated" in a discussion of aggression is just random, pointless babbling.
Posted on 8/26/09 at 9:39 am to ForeLSU
quote:
Unorthodox?
quote:
I may have missed it somewhere...please define
-occasionaly looking lost on the sidelines (even though he may or may not be, it appears that way)
- not being a control freak and egomaniac, allowing his coordinators to set tone and gameplans
- favoring seniors with experience over freshman with talent (the larger calculation here being that Miles knows the freshman has more talent, but the freshman may not know the right reads or blocks to make, so he is banking on the fact that the freshmen, while having more raw talent, may also make a mistake and blow up a play that the senior otherwise would have executed, a logical thought to be sure).
- coming across as quirky in the media when describing decisions he made or plays during a gam (the media then translates this into him not being serious or understanding football, when in reality he is just examining the issue from angles that the media has never even considered)
-caring more about the team than himself, something lost in today's 'look at me' world
This post was edited on 8/26/09 at 9:40 am
Posted on 8/26/09 at 9:39 am to ForeLSU
quote:
this has been more of a defensive issue, than an offensive one
in 2007 for sure
i put it on teh offense in 2006 though. even against UF and UTenn, we gave them points with stupid turnovers and dumb plays. all aspects of the team shite the bed against UF in 2006
last year it was...a bit of both
Posted on 8/26/09 at 9:42 am to Tiger_n_ATL
quote:
- favoring seniors with experience over freshman with talent
hardly unorthodox...
Posted on 8/26/09 at 9:43 am to SlowFlowPro
I think he'll embrace whatever philosophy he needs to in order to win the game he's playing at the time.
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