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Started By
Message
re: Flynn/Russell, Hester/Scott
Posted on 4/24/09 at 9:33 am to DP40
Posted on 4/24/09 at 9:33 am to DP40
quote:
What JR did in the Auby game was total stupidity that I don't think I have ever seen before.
no one ever said JR was perfect.
but he was certainly better than flynn.
here's a question for you:
if flynn was "smarter" and better than JR, why didn't he start over him in 2004, 2005, and 2006?
2
Posted on 4/24/09 at 9:35 am to TheDoc
quote:
if flynn was "smarter" and better than JR, why didn't he start over him in 2004, 2005, and 2006?
He was kept down by the man.
Posted on 4/24/09 at 9:36 am to TheDoc
quote:
so we're basing dumb off mistakes now?
isn't it weird how flynn threw more interceptions?
a INT is still a mistake right?
No!
Int's, bad sacks, fumbles, bad passes, etc.
Posted on 4/24/09 at 9:36 am to TigerNlc
quote:
He was kept down by the man.
how about a serious answer?
Posted on 4/24/09 at 9:41 am to TheDoc
quote:
if flynn was "smarter" and better than JR, why didn't he start over him in 2004, 2005, and 2006?
Good question. I read somewhere Flynn didn't take it serious enough his first 2 years. Maybe it's somebody else, but I thought it referred to him.
'06. I think Russell was given the job especially after his injury. Was it the right decision? Probably, but I thought Flynn deserved more consideration and PT. I bet he would have gotten more pt under Crowton though.
JR was excellent in his last 5-6 games so it appears to be the right decision.
Posted on 4/24/09 at 9:43 am to TheDoc
Maybe JR was a better practice player?(happend with JL) Maybe he fit the offense better? They played under two different OC so whos to say which one would have started under Crowton(he likes a more mobile QB) I don't know I wasn't there and I am not a coach I am just simply telling who you I prefer.
Posted on 4/24/09 at 9:55 am to DP40
quote:
Int's, bad sacks, fumbles, bad passes, etc.
are you saying flynn never did any of the above?
Posted on 4/24/09 at 9:56 am to TheDoc
quote:
AM enlighten me with your brilliance.
No problem.
Lets revisit the last play at Auburn.
A few seconds after the snap, the pocket collapsed and Russell rolled out to his left. He stopped about two feet in front of the line of scrimmage and had Auburn's Righ DE bearing down on him quickly.
There were three receivers in pattern. The primary receiver was Bowe who had run a post pattern from the far side of the field. He was doubled covered in the endzone.
The secondary receiver was Davis who had run a slant across the field and was on Russell's side of the field about 4 yards in front of the goalline. He had his man beat by a step.
The third receiver was Doucet who come from the near side of the field and run to the far corner of the endzone. He was single covered but there was a safty playing in between he and Russell.
So Russell has four options. He can't really escape the pressure from Auburn's D-Line because he is pinned between the rush and the sideline.
1) He could try to run, but there is no time left on the clock and he is 25 yards out. This really isn't a choice.
2) He could try to throw to Bowe in the endzone, but then he'd be throwing in double coverage.
3) He could try to throw across his body and across the field to the far side to Doucet, but that means putting a lot of air under the ball which gives the safety playing centerfield plenty of time to come over and, essentially, throw into another double coverage
4) His last option is to hit Davis on the cross, four yards short of the goalline. Davis had a step in his guy and was in single coverage.
Option #4 was clearly his best option. You have to make that throw and hope that Davis either jukes his guy or the defender misses the tackle. It was highly unlikely that the other two pass options would even have been completed.
He made the throw that gave LSU the best chance of winning. You could have put any pocket passer in that position, and they are going to make the same throw everytime. There simply was no other option.
Honestly, the best QB to have in that situation would have been a Vince Young/Michael Vick guy because the middle of the field was wide open and they have the speed and agility to make people miss. But that obviously wasn't an option for Russell.
You can still like me. I just get fed up when people fault Russell for this play acting like he had some other option. This was the only pass he could make and, short of a jump ball miracle, really the only chance LSU had to score on that play.
Posted on 4/24/09 at 9:56 am to DP40
quote:
I think Russell was given the job especially after his injury
you don't think he earned it in spring, summer, and fall practices?
Posted on 4/24/09 at 10:14 am to Antonio Moss
AM, that was nice!
But the scramble play was inexcusable! I like your options, but I guess I preferred a throw in the endzone to Bowe, but Davis wasn't a good option since, if my memory serves me JR had more time to wait.
The scramble play was by far the worst play.
But the scramble play was inexcusable! I like your options, but I guess I preferred a throw in the endzone to Bowe, but Davis wasn't a good option since, if my memory serves me JR had more time to wait.
The scramble play was by far the worst play.
Posted on 4/24/09 at 10:15 am to TheDoc
quote:
you don't think he earned it in spring, summer, and fall practices?
I thought he didn't compete in spring due to the shoulder?
Posted on 4/24/09 at 10:23 am to DP40
quote:
I like your options, but I guess I preferred a throw in the endzone to Bowe
At best, its a jump ball in double coverage.
quote:
but Davis wasn't a good option since, if my memory serves me JR had more time to wait.
Nah, he got crushed by the DE right after he threw it.
quote:
The scramble play was by far the worst play.
He definietly should have thrown it away, but its really hard to fault the guy for trying to make something happen. He had broken the pocket and was waiting for the receiver to break back when he was tackled from behind. That play is not nearly enough to convince me that Flynn is even comparable to Russell.
No QB is perfect. I was actually surprised to see that Flynn, in 2007, took more sacks than Russell in 2006. I really would have never guessed that.
Posted on 4/24/09 at 10:26 am to DP40
So to recap:
JR throws more TDs
JR throws LESS Ints
JR throws for more yards
JR completes more passes by a huge margin
JR gets sacked less
JR has more pass attempts per INT
JR was the best QB in a better year for QBs
JR beat out Flynn every year
Knowing all of this, how can people say JR was dumb? That's what gets me. There's NO reason to say JR was dumb if you look at the stats. Dumb in football would lead you to believe he made mistakes, but Flynn had more picks (mistake), completed fewer passes (mistake), was sacked more (mistake), threw INTs per every 30 or so pass attempts (mistake), etc.
JR throws more TDs
JR throws LESS Ints
JR throws for more yards
JR completes more passes by a huge margin
JR gets sacked less
JR has more pass attempts per INT
JR was the best QB in a better year for QBs
JR beat out Flynn every year
Knowing all of this, how can people say JR was dumb? That's what gets me. There's NO reason to say JR was dumb if you look at the stats. Dumb in football would lead you to believe he made mistakes, but Flynn had more picks (mistake), completed fewer passes (mistake), was sacked more (mistake), threw INTs per every 30 or so pass attempts (mistake), etc.
Posted on 4/24/09 at 10:26 am to DP40
quote:
The scramble play was by far the worst play.
look, I agree with you.
the last minute of that drive, we had some terrible clock management.
JR made some bad decisions, and more than likely, probably cost us the game in the end.
but overall, you and I both know, it was a horrible game plan from the start.
3 points? LSU was getting stuffed all day by auburn, and when we did throw, it seemed like it was getting called back everytime.
that auburn 2006 game pissed me off more than any other game in les miles tenure.
in the other losses, there were excuses. *to some degree*
but 06 auburn was just BAD.
running hester, vincent, and broussard, and keeping scott, and williams on the bench was tough to watch.
I also find it funny how people think i'm some white person hating racist on here
or that i hate matt flynn
I thought flynn should of had some more oppurtunities during the 2006 season to play.
change it up and what not.
he could have play the crowton "RP" role of 2007.
I think it would have greatly benefitted the team to put him in the games more and give JR some plays off to watch and rest.
I am appreciative of everything Matt Flynn did for LSU in the years he was here. I like Matt flynn as a person, and as a player, and wish no ill will to him.
All i'm saying is, overall, he wasn't a better QB than JR, in my opinion.
Posted on 4/24/09 at 10:27 am to AlexLSU
quote:
So to recap:
JR throws more TDs
JR throws LESS Ints
JR throws for more yards
JR completes more passes by a huge margin
JR gets sacked less
JR has more pass attempts per INT
JR was the best QB in a better year for QBs
JR beat out Flynn every year
Knowing all of this, how can people say JR was dumb? That's what gets me. There's NO reason to say JR was dumb if you look at the stats. Dumb in football would lead you to believe he made mistakes, but Flynn had more picks (mistake), completed fewer passes (mistake), was sacked more (mistake), threw INTs per every 30 or so pass attempts (mistake), etc.
good recap.
Posted on 4/24/09 at 10:30 am to TheDoc
quote:
that auburn 2006 game pissed me off more than any other game in les miles tenure.
Yeah, I completely agree with this. After that, they really changed up the way they ran the offense. They let Russell loose after that game.
Posted on 4/24/09 at 10:32 am to AlexLSU
quote:
So to recap:
JR throws more TDs
JR throws LESS Ints
JR throws for more yards
JR completes more passes by a huge margin
JR gets sacked less
JR has more pass attempts per INT
JR was the best QB in a better year for QBs
JR beat out Flynn every year
Knowing all of this, how can people say JR was dumb? That's what gets me. There's NO reason to say JR was dumb if you look at the stats. Dumb in football would lead you to believe he made mistakes, but Flynn had more picks (mistake), completed fewer passes (mistake), was sacked more (mistake), threw INTs per every 30 or so pass attempts (mistake), etc.
Overall...
But being sacked more is not an issue depending on the situation. The Tulane game he got sacked alot due to his ankle and pathetic OL play.
I appreciate the stats though.
Posted on 4/24/09 at 10:33 am to TheDoc
quote:
look, I agree with you.
the last minute of that drive, we had some terrible clock management.
JR made some bad decisions, and more than likely, probably cost us the game in the end.
but overall, you and I both know, it was a horrible game plan from the start.
3 points? LSU was getting stuffed all day by auburn, and when we did throw, it seemed like it was getting called back everytime.
that auburn 2006 game pissed me off more than any other game in les miles tenure.
in the other losses, there were excuses. *to some degree*
but 06 auburn was just BAD.
running hester, vincent, and broussard, and keeping scott, and williams on the bench was tough to watch.
I also find it funny how people think i'm some white person hating racist on here
or that i hate matt flynn
I thought flynn should of had some more oppurtunities during the 2006 season to play.
change it up and what not.
he could have play the crowton "RP" role of 2007.
I think it would have greatly benefitted the team to put him in the games more and give JR some plays off to watch and rest.
I am appreciative of everything Matt Flynn did for LSU in the years he was here. I like Matt flynn as a person, and as a player, and wish no ill will to him.
All i'm saying is, overall, he wasn't a better QB than JR, in my opinion.
Cool. I respect that.
Posted on 4/24/09 at 10:36 am to DP40
quote:
running hester, vincent, and broussard, and keeping scott, and williams on the bench was tough to watch.
I don't think any running back would have helped, they were going to make us pass to win the game and for some reason we kept running
The only sense I can make of that gameplan is they wanted to keep it close and play for it at the end of the game.Posted on 4/24/09 at 10:36 am to AlexLSU
quote:
So to recap:
JR throws more TDs
JR throws LESS Ints
JR throws for more yards
JR completes more passes by a huge margin
JR gets sacked less
JR has more pass attempts per INT
JR was the best QB in a better year for QBs
JR beat out Flynn every year
Knowing all of this, how can people say JR was dumb? That's what gets me. There's NO reason to say JR was dumb if you look at the stats. Dumb in football would lead you to believe he made mistakes, but Flynn had more picks (mistake), completed fewer passes (mistake), was sacked more (mistake), threw INTs per every 30 or so pass attempts (mistake), etc.
Did Flynn have 2 1st round wide receivers to throw to like Russell did?
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