- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Winter Olympics
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: Interesting article on NCAA Refs
Posted on 12/27/16 at 3:48 pm to omegaman66
Posted on 12/27/16 at 3:48 pm to omegaman66
quote:
Cheating is moving the ball to any spot that you think is not an accurate spot.
True. It usually comes with some sort of advantageous motive though. I rarely here of people cheating to make the right call. They usually call that a corrective action to properly spot the ball.
The other thing is while he may have thought the spot was accurate there's another ref he appears to be looking at for help on the spot. I don't deny the mechanics of the spot are poor. I am just saying it doesn't prove he was indeed cheating. If it was such an obvious cheat and the spot was so piss poor i would hope that Ole Miss would've requested it be reviewed. I don't believe they did, and on top of that the spot did not directly effect the outcome of the game as it was spotted in the appropriate spot on the field.
JFK Style Analysis of the play
You will see the ump in the middle of the field during the play and the side judge as well. Around 1:30 in the video is where you see the side judge look over to the other ref for some direction. Believe what you want, ultimately. There's just no proof that he was cheating, and if he was he's really shitty at it.
0
Posted on 12/27/16 at 3:53 pm to EZE Tiger Fan
quote:
Because Bama went an entire SEC schedule one season and into the next season (can't remember which years, thing it was 11-12 or 12-13) where they were not called for ONE holding penalty during conference play.
This would be something i would like to see. Can you send me the link for this information? You also only mention Bama yet in your first post you mentioned several teams. Were they all as you claim Bama was?
Again, I'm not trying to be difficult here. I am simply asking for a link to see that information about Bama not getting a single holding call over more than one season in conference play.
Posted on 12/27/16 at 4:58 pm to Tiger Tracker
quote:
This would be something i would like to see. Can you send me the link for this information?
I don't care enough to dig it up. One of the other posters on this site will no doubt have it. I think Rickdaddy or the other poster that showed you the penalty stats for both Saban and Miles at LSU compared to Bama. Rickdaddy is usually really good with stats around recruiting and other areas....
It definitely happened, and I remember there was a thread started either on MSB or the SECRant when they were finally called for it again so everyone could laugh at the absurdity of it all. I want to say it was a 10 or 11 game stretch. Definitely covered 8 for one entire season...
quote:
You also only mention Bama yet in your first post you mentioned several teams. Were they all as you claim Bama was?
I have no idea what this question means (context).
Posted on 12/27/16 at 6:24 pm to EZE Tiger Fan
quote:
I have no idea what this question means (context).
The context is related to this post:
quote:
I see a play like the screen shot against Ole Miss and I ask myself, "would the SEC call that against Bama, Auburn or Florida on a consistent basis?" That answer is an obvious no
quote:
I don't care enough to dig it up. One of the other posters on this site will no doubt have it
Found it in an espn article before the NC game that year:
quote:
Alabama's offensive line doesn't shoot itself in the foot, either. Remarkably, Crimson Tide linemen haven't been penalized for a holding call since the second quarter of their fifth game against Kentucky on Oct. 3. They haven't been called for a holding penalty in each of the last eight games, playing more than 500 minutes without one.
Johnson said offensive line coach Joe Pendry emphasizes hand placement, which has helped lead to the holding drought.
But Johnson also admitted that officials probably missed a few holding calls, too.
"What do you think?" Johnson said. "Sit back and watch the film, and I'm sure you'll find a few."
Now, i didn’t have to go look it up and share, but i am legitimately trying to look at every angle of this. So over 8 games including SECCG they didn't get a holding call.
Seems pretty impressive, but how does it compare to other teams in the SEC? I get that the stats are exceptionally good for an 8 game span. I just don't think 8 games tells you the whole story. You're not even comparing those stats to anything else.
If i showed you the stat that Oklahoma holds the record for longest winning streak at 47 games, i believe, does it mean that they automatically cheated to get that streak? I have a better chance of getting struck by lightning than a team beating that record. Why is that relevant?
Can you tell me how many holds Bama actually committed during that time that they were not called for? Like Johnson says in the article there have to be some, but again what does this prove? Is it even the longest streak without a holding penalty by any NCAA team?
Posted on 12/27/16 at 6:58 pm to Tiger Tracker
quote:
Now, i didn’t have to go look it up and share, but i am legitimately trying to look at every angle of this. So over 8 games including SECCG they didn't get a holding call.
Seems pretty impressive, but how does it compare to other teams in the SEC? I get that the stats are exceptionally good for an 8 game span. I just don't think 8 games tells you the whole story. You're not even comparing those stats to anything else.
If i showed you the stat that Oklahoma holds the record for longest winning streak at 47 games, i believe, does it mean that they automatically cheated to get that streak? I have a better chance of getting struck by lightning than a team beating that record. Why is that relevant?
Can you tell me how many holds Bama actually committed during that time that they were not called for? Like Johnson says in the article there have to be some, but again what does this prove? Is it even the longest streak without a holding penalty by any NCAA team?
This statement here shows exactly who and what you are and what your agenda is here.
Posted on 12/27/16 at 7:10 pm to Ponchy Tiger
quote:
This statement here shows exactly who and what you are and what your agenda is here.
A person who actually looks at comparative statistics instead of 8 games by one team in one season in a vacuum before coming to a broad unproven conclusion?
Posted on 12/28/16 at 8:11 am to Tiger Tracker
quote:
The context is related to this post:
Oh, that's the SEC's pecking order for football. The SEC would benefit greatly if their top two teams from the East and West (Bama and UF) were in the SECCG every year. They work hard to make this happen. Auburn being a close second in the west as we have seen Auburn get away with some amazing things as well.
quote:
So over 8 games including SECCG they didn't get a holding call.
And then several games into the next season as well.
quote:
Seems pretty impressive, but how does it compare to other teams in the SEC?
It doesn't.
quote:
I get that the stats are exceptionally good for an 8 game span. I just don't think 8 games tells you the whole story. You're not even comparing those stats to anything else.
Moving the goal posts again. You asked for an example of bias. I provide you a very blatant outlier and now you move the goal posts again.
quote:
If i showed you the stat that Oklahoma holds the record for longest winning streak at 47 games, i believe, does it mean that they automatically cheated to get that streak?
Strawman. And no, it doesn't. Just like Bama would have still beaten LSU in 2016 even without the blatant missed calls. If the game is called fairly, LSU still loses 6-3 or 3-0.
quote:
Can you tell me how many holds Bama actually committed during that time that they were not called for?
Just as many as everyone else did. Now you are being obtuse.
quote:
Is it even the longest streak without a holding penalty by any NCAA team?
I don't know. I just know that is a very unlikely scenario for any team on any level of football to experience.
You have no idea how humorous I find this thread. Thanks for the entertainment.
Posted on 12/28/16 at 11:00 am to EZE Tiger Fan
quote:
Oh, that's the SEC's pecking order for football. The SEC would benefit greatly if their top two teams from the East and West (Bama and UF) were in the SECCG every year. They work hard to make this happen. Auburn being a close second in the west as we have seen Auburn get away with some amazing things as well.
Again, this makes no sense since Auburn and Florida are right behind LSU in penalty margins per game from 2012-2015. That's my point your making a claim that's the bias pecking order but you're not providing proof that it is.
quote:
It doesn't.
quote:
Moving the goal posts again. You asked for an example of bias. I provide you a very blatant outlier and now you move the goal posts again.
1) That's not a quantitative answer to my question, and provides nothing to further your claim.
2) a blatant outlier doesn't PROVE bias. Extraordinary things happen in sports as was my example of OKs win streak. An outlier doesn't show me anything other than it was an outlier over 8 or so games.
3) im not moving any goalposts. I am not being rude when i ask this, but do you understand how proper research is done? The article, for example, the researcher looked at thousands of penalties from all P5 teams over years. I have requested someone show me similar study about only Bama bias. No one has. You took 8 or so games about bama not getting holding calls then said that proves it (along with some other calls) you never even said what the average amount of holding calls were in the SEC over that same period. You don't prove bias if there's only one team involved. That's not how it works.
quote:
quote:
Can you tell me how many holds Bama actually committed during that time that they were not called for?
Just as many as everyone else did. Now you are being obtuse.
Again "just as many as everyone else" is a terrible response. You say that because you don't have the numbers. How can you claim favoritism when you don't even know how many holding penalties the other teams had during that same span? Do you understand what i am getting at here? How is it favoritism if we don't even know the numbers of other teams??
I'm not being obtuse at all. I requested a simple comparison of Bama to other teams over an extended period of time. You pointed to an 8 game or so span of time where 1) you didn't identify how many calls were actually missed (which is the whole point of favoritism) and 2) compare those missed calls to other teams.
That's basic research. You can't make a claim that someone is favorited over someone else without knowing the numbers on "someone else". You used one side of the numbers to make a claim which you have no clue if the other side actually supports.
quote:
I don't know. I just know that is a very unlikely scenario for any team on any level of football to experience.
It's unlikely. So I'm throwing up strawman, but this is solid reaearch? "I can't even tell you if it's the longest streak without a hold, but i can tell you its unlikely." So you took an unlikely stat like holding streak, didn't research the stat at all, said it's a good stat so they must have cheated? That's your evidence? You can't even tell me how many of the calls were missed that were actually holds.
quote:
You have no idea how humorous I find this thread. Thanks for the entertainment.
Yea me too. I have no clue how people think proof is examining bits and pieces of various games, from memory, and then not comparing them to actual stats and averages from other schools, then claiming they provided evidence' when in reality they provided extraordinary statistics with no basis of comparison or control group (the national average). I find that pretty funny myself.
I have said several times that the article i posted shows some bias playcalling amongst WINNING teams (which includes LSU) and the favoritism isn't some Bama/auburn and SEC conspiracy like people make it out to be. The study cannot even prove whether that bias is conscious or not. I agree the refs offices don't need to reside with conference offices, but it's very comical to read all this "proof" that the refs are consciously cheating for bama and aubrun because the sec office is in Bama when they provided me with no actual research indicating that, at all. Is there bias? Sure, but it happens all across the country and helps LSU as well. That's my whole point.
However, thw stats you provided don't actually prove bias. They prove that they're factual stats. To prove bias you would have to do much more research than what you did. I don't expect you to do it. I'm just saying you won't be able to prove it otherwise.
This post was edited on 12/28/16 at 1:14 pm
Posted on 1/4/17 at 12:53 pm to rjokerlsu
quote:
will not be officiating any more Bama games this season.
There's always next year...
Posted on 1/4/17 at 12:58 pm to Tiger Tracker
Well I do recall also a phantom holding call on Arky when they were about to score on the gumps again. Pretty much ended the TD threat, but I am sure that you are correct. Everything is above board...
Look, this is a cover story by the people who brought you the behind-closed-doors playoff committee. How could OSU be picked over PSU? Simple, TV ratings. That's it. In a close game, the officiating can, and often does, decide the outcome. Wake up and smell the coffee my friend.
Look, this is a cover story by the people who brought you the behind-closed-doors playoff committee. How could OSU be picked over PSU? Simple, TV ratings. That's it. In a close game, the officiating can, and often does, decide the outcome. Wake up and smell the coffee my friend.
Posted on 1/4/17 at 7:05 pm to LSUStar
quote:
LSUStar
Always good to read the article before commenting.
Posted on 1/5/17 at 1:37 pm to Tiger Tracker
Right. Maybe you should re-read it. It is a cover story.
Posted on 1/5/17 at 3:16 pm to Tiger Tracker
quote:
Ultimately, I agree that refs should be overseen by an independent national body, but let's not, as LSU fans, keep blaming officiating for poor play calling and coaching.
So in other words, just keep bending over and taking it? That's that douche Matt Moscona's take. Horrible calls or non-calls occurred in the 2009, 2014 and 2016 Alabama games, not to mention the 2006 Auburn game that really cost LSU. When bad officiating occurs, it should be pointed out, not simply ignored.
This post was edited on 1/5/17 at 3:22 pm
Posted on 1/5/17 at 4:10 pm to Tiger Tracker
Ref-baiters might be distressed to learn that the SEC—winners of eight of the last 10 national titles—appears to have the least biased officials.
When did Alabama and Saban conduct this study? That is the only way that can be the result. 4in the open holding calls NOT called on the touchdown run. Missing one in the line - plausible, missing 4 in the open behind the line is inexcusable and NOT plausible.
When did Alabama and Saban conduct this study? That is the only way that can be the result. 4in the open holding calls NOT called on the touchdown run. Missing one in the line - plausible, missing 4 in the open behind the line is inexcusable and NOT plausible.
Posted on 1/5/17 at 5:55 pm to OldSarge38
THe 2006 LSU-Auburn game was a clinic on preferential officiating, the 2009 Peterson interception in the Alabama game was skewered by the national media.
I really can't think of any huge controversies over SEC officiating, at least for LSU, that didn't involve an Alabama school.
If you don't believe that the Alabama schools are getting preferential treatment, then you don't believe there is insider trading on Wall St..
I really can't think of any huge controversies over SEC officiating, at least for LSU, that didn't involve an Alabama school.
If you don't believe that the Alabama schools are getting preferential treatment, then you don't believe there is insider trading on Wall St..
Posted on 1/5/17 at 7:53 pm to andouille
quote:
THe 2006 LSU-Auburn game was a clinic on preferential officiating, the 2009 Peterson interception in the Alabama game was skewered by the national media.
I really can't think of any huge controversies over SEC officiating, at least for LSU, that didn't involve an Alabama school.
And it's when LSU is in a close game with Alabama or Auburn when we see the officials put their thumb on the scale. 2006 Auburn game; 2009, 2014 and 2016 Alabama games; all games where one can make a convincing case that the officials made the difference against LSU.
Posted on 1/5/17 at 8:45 pm to TigersFan64
quote:
So in other words, just keep bending over and taking it?
No im saying quit blaming the refs for lsu not beating bama because it was our poor offense and play calling that cost us the majority of those games. I think we have a much better shot next year with the new coaching staff.
Posted on 1/5/17 at 8:48 pm to LSUStar
quote:
Maybe you should re-read it. It is a cover story.
Are you saying someone not associated in any way with Alabama went out and conducted research across the NCAA over many years and thousands of penalties to make a cover story for Bama?
What's being covered up here?
Posted on 1/5/17 at 9:07 pm to Tiger Tracker
quote:
No im saying quit blaming the refs for lsu not beating bama because it was our poor offense and play calling that cost us the majority of those games.
LSU shouldn't have to overcome horrible officiating AND Alabama/Auburn to win, which is basically what LSU was facing in the 2009 (P. Peterson int.), 2014 (horrible PF pensalty on V. Alexander when the Alabama player wouldn't let go of his leg then flopped when lightly tapped by Alexander; M. Dupre mugged by DB in EZ in OT, not called by refs) and 2016 (no holding calls on Hurts TD run? give me a break) Alabama games, and the 2006 Auburn game. Without the highly questionable officiating in those games, LSU has a fair chance to win those games, even with our deficiencies on offense.
This post was edited on 1/5/17 at 9:10 pm
Posted on 1/5/17 at 9:10 pm to TigersFan64
I don't disagree there were bad calls. I'm just saying i dont buy in to this big conspiracy where refs actively cheat for alabama when there's not nearly enough data/evidence presented, yet, to prove this.
Page 10 of 14
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News