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Message
re: The problem is not with our offense is...
Posted on 9/22/10 at 2:58 pm to lsuexpert57
Posted on 9/22/10 at 2:58 pm to lsuexpert57
quote:
OK so let me get this straight. It doesn't really matter who the OC for a team is, as long as he is using a scheme designed by a "good" OC.
Not just that. Certainly there are good schemes and bad schemes, but you also have to account for how your personnel fits the scheme you intend to run. A great scheme will fail with the wrong personnel. A mediocre scheme can sometimes work if the personnel is there to fit the objective. A great example of this is Rich Rodriguez and Michigan. He couldn't just replace his players with Wisconsin's players and succeed despite the past success of his offense.
quote:
It doesn't matter who calls the plays or when, as long as he just has good plays to pick from.
That's not true either. Whoever is calling plays has to still evaluate which part of the scheme is working and which isn't and dictate the game from that point.
quote:
Hmmm....so all we need is just to watch film of good OC's copy their scheme then just put some drunk monkey in the booth picking out the plays at random and and in some players coached by Saban 3 years ago...and POOF..NC.
Maybe this conversation is a little too complex for you.
1
Posted on 9/22/10 at 3:00 pm to Antonio Moss
quote:
Maybe this conversation is a little too complex for you.
LOL....yeah that's it, you're waaay to complex for me.
Posted on 9/22/10 at 3:03 pm to lsuexpert57
quote:
That's not true either. Whoever is calling plays has to still evaluate which part of the scheme is working and which isn't and dictate the game from that point.
So, it actually DOES matter who the person is that is actually there calling the plays. Huh...so I guess that since it was Crowton calling the plays in 2007 that means he is an OC that is good enough to win a NC? Amazing leap for you there chief.
Posted on 9/22/10 at 3:08 pm to lsuexpert57
Ut oh, I guess you painted yourself into the same corner that Dead Fish did. You chumps are the same run of the mill cry babies that post on here day in and day out. You can't have it both ways princess, they responsible for the good AND the bad...not JUST the bad and none of the good. I think you just looked up option read passing game on wikipedia or something and now your Bill Walsh.
Posted on 9/22/10 at 3:12 pm to lsuexpert57
Here is what a casual fan like you really doesn't get about coaching football. There is very little true schematic innovation in the game, its the biggest copycat business around. Even if you can be innovative, it only gets you an advantage for a couple games. Once its on film, everybody sees what you are doing and copies what works. There's no magic. What do you think Saban does on defense that no one else does? NOTHING! If he had some magic formula for an unbeatable scheme every coach in the nation would have copied it one game after they saw it. Doesn't this make sense to you, or is it too COMPLEX?....LOL what a dork.
Posted on 9/22/10 at 3:13 pm to Dead Fish
quote:
Hey…it’s not my fault you are too delusional and stupid to accept obvious reality. Miles got lucky as shite and backed his way into the championship game in 2007 although he tried like hell to screw it up by losing to Kentucky and Arkansas and won a MNC with Saban’s players, and Saban won a MNC last year with Shuler’s players when he went undefeated in 2009 and undefeated in the regular season in 2008.
Here's what i know. Saban left with 16 pre-season all-sec selections in 2004....and could not get to a major bowl and lost to iowa in his bowl. Other than that one great year in 2003, saban never had a GREAT year. Miles came in and upgraded the coaching staff to the point where lsu could finish with three straight top 5 finishes (which is still more than saban has had in his entire career) including 2 bcs wins and a NC. Now that NC, lsu just didn't play the only once beaten team in the land that lost their one game by 3 points....NO, LSU beat the ever living frick out of them to win the NC. Miles in a bowl game is so much better than saban and it ain't even close. LSU had some problems (kind of like bama had in 2007 losing to ulm etc...) the last couple of years, but you know what, even in those down years, they are 21-9....IN DOWN YEARS. Miles WILL take his players and WHIP saban and HIS players this year...book it. And when they do, there will be a lot of elation on this board no doubt...but there will still be a lot of sadness here as well as the taste of saban will still linger in many of your mouths.....my opinion is to stfu, because you sound more ridiculous each week. Next thing you know you will be like nuts and standing by your predictions but already making excuses for when the predictions are wrong.
Posted on 9/22/10 at 3:15 pm to mike4lsu
Miles had no problem letting JR or MF throw the ball downfield
Posted on 9/22/10 at 3:15 pm to lsuexpert57
quote:
So, it actually DOES matter who the person is that is actually there calling the plays. Huh...so I guess that since it was Crowton calling the plays in 2007 that means he is an OC that is good enough to win a NC? Amazing leap for you there chief.
When did I ever say anything different? He may be great at calling plays out of a prostyle formation that fits our offensive personnel.
The problem is that he is stubbornly trying to force the Read Option Offense despite having personnel better suited for a prostyle offense and nearly a decade's worth of evidence showing his offense's ineffectiveness.
Posted on 9/22/10 at 3:17 pm to lsuexpert57
It's the same with offense, true innovation is rare, but when it does happen, like the spread offense for instance, you don't get a copyright on it. If it works well, one season later 20 teams copy you, then the season after that 50 teams are doing it. For the life of me I can't figure out how guys like you think. You don't think our coaches pore over hours and hours of film, both of themselves and other teams? You don't think they understand what other teams are doing schematically that we could use or learn to defend against? You don't think the ENTIRE staff, who have untold years of experience coaching at every level and on many different teams KNOWS WHATS GOING ON AS WELL AS YOU? Damn your stupid.
Posted on 9/22/10 at 3:22 pm to lsuexpert57
quote:
The problem is that he is stubbornly trying to force the Read Option Offense despite having personnel better suited for a prostyle offense and nearly a decade's worth of evidence showing his offense's ineffectiveness.
The READ OPTION OFFENSE has been around for at least 25 years, Crowton didn't invent it, and it has been successful for many different coaches and teams. Really, did you just hear the term in a bar or something? Are you old enough to go in a bar?
Posted on 9/22/10 at 3:24 pm to mike4lsu
quote:
He is content on being a middle of the road SEC team, the sort of Oklahoma State of the SEC West.
douche of the week award. nice try mike.
Posted on 9/22/10 at 3:27 pm to lsuexpert57
quote:
It's the same with offense, true innovation is rare, but when it does happen, like the spread offense for instance, you don't get a copyright on it. If it works well, one season later 20 teams copy you, then the season after that 50 teams are doing it.
What does any of this have to do with Crowton's ineffective Read Option offense?
quote:
For the life of me I can't figure out how guys like you think. You don't think our coaches pore over hours and hours of film, both of themselves and other teams?
Sure they do. I also believe that, at this level, you get a lot of coaches who are so egotistical that they refuse to admit when something doesn't work. They also refuse to recognize when things that fall outside of their system do work.
That isn't limited to college football, you can find this all over.
If this weren't the case, then every college football coach would be a great football coach. The problem with asinine arguments such as these is that tries to element the possibility that a coach can just be flat out bad, which any reasonable person knows isn't true.
You don't think Curley Hallman poured over hours of film during his tenure? You don't think Ed Ogeron study all the teams on Ole Miss schedule in the middle of this decade? Did that prevent them from being absolutely atrocious coaches?
quote:
You don't think they understand what other teams are doing schematically that we could use or learn to defend against? You don't think the ENTIRE staff, who have untold years of experience coaching at every level and on many different teams KNOWS WHATS GOING ON AS WELL AS YOU?
So experience plus studying film automatically makes someone a great football coach? Coaching football, unlike every other profession in the world, has no margin of error? There is no possibility that a coach fails to understand the consequences of his schemes? Or even worse (and probably more accurate) refuses to recognize these failure due to ego?
quote:
Damn your stupid.
Irony at its finest.
Posted on 9/22/10 at 3:28 pm to lsuexpert57
quote:
It's the same with offense, true innovation is rare, but when it does happen, like the spread offense for instance, you don't get a copyright on it. If it works well, one season later 20 teams copy you, then the season after that 50 teams are doing it. For the life of me I can't figure out how guys like you think. You don't think our coaches pore over hours and hours of film, both of themselves and other teams? You don't think they understand what other teams are doing schematically that we could use or learn to defend against? You don't think the ENTIRE staff, who have untold years of experience coaching at every level and on many different teams KNOWS WHATS GOING ON AS WELL AS YOU? Damn your stupid.
yeah, there are truly a bunch of idiots out there. The majority of them are college or college aged kids that still think they know more than everyone else, even though they haven't been around to see ALL teams cycle through good and bad runs....welll not all teams have good runs...but you get my point...the teams that have great runs have down years.....and we are 21-9 over our down period so far....pretty damn good down period. But, we have all these young geniuses out there that think we should be minimum 10-2 and 11-1 every single year and it just don't happen in the SEC. Hell, it didn't even happen with one of the greatest players to ever play college football leading the way...tim tebow. You sound like a very logical guy, but, on this site, logic isn't used. The guy is 54-15 with three top 5's and a NC...lol...and he is a bozo......no one else has talent, only lsu should be winning nc's....hilarious. It's like these kids truly believe we are the only school. the reality of it is there are 10-12 other schools that think just like we do and they can't all win it every year....I am thankful for what we have had in terms of success, and I see some REAL potential with this team. Been following football for 30 years now, and this is about as special a defense as I can remember lsu having, in terms of big play ability. The coaches are being very conservative knowing we have been playing teams where we simply have the best talent....not taking unneccessary risks...etc...it'f funny these idiots on here actually think they know more about what's going on that these guys coaching that have been doing it at the top level for many, many years. I know a lot about football, and I'm not always happy with the way things are going...but i know this...those guys know a hell of a lot more than me.
Posted on 9/22/10 at 3:31 pm to byubengalboy
quote:
The problem is that he is stubbornly trying to force the Read Option Offense despite having personnel better suited for a prostyle offense and nearly a decade's worth of evidence showing his offense's ineffectiveness.
Here's another faux paux by you, (that means stupid mistake...well not really, I added the stupid part myself)we have the PERSONNEL to run any kind of offense we want! I actually think that is part of the problem for our coaches. They are like the proverbial kid in a candy store. You want to run a power running game with a big tailback and bruising fb with a couple big TE's to help block? We got em. You want to run a spread with some small quick little backs and a QB that can run a bit? We got em. You wanna run a vertical passing game with some tall fast future NFL recievers and a strong armed QB? We got em. We have the talent to run whatever an OC can dream up..and in the past we have run some of everything. But as we have seen the last two year and starting this year, your trigger man is more important than any other piece. First you see what that guy can do, then that dictates what kind of offense you can have. It's as simple as that, not as simple as you....but simple.
Posted on 9/22/10 at 3:32 pm to lsuexpert57
quote:
The READ OPTION OFFENSE has been around for at least 25 years, Crowton didn't invent it, and it has been successful for many different coaches and teams.
There is no "The Read Option Offense." There are varying styles and schemes in each coach's offense. Read Option, as it concerns Crowton, comprises a host of option runs - QB read, sweep, etc. - with an option route passing game. Of less concern is the rushing aspect. However, the route option passing game has been an abysmal failure at LSU. Furthermore, it has been a failure at BYU and Oregon. However, despite the objective fact that this offense has failed multiple times throughout this decade, Crowton still insist on forcing it through. Luckily, this will be our last year to see it.
This post was edited on 9/22/10 at 3:43 pm
Posted on 9/22/10 at 3:35 pm to lsuexpert57
quote:
You don't think Curley Hallman poured over hours of film during his tenure? You don't think Ed Ogeron study all the teams on Ole Miss schedule in the middle of this decade? Did that prevent them from being absolutely atrocious coaches?
My argument isn't that some coaches aren't better than others.
MY argument is that YOU aren't smart enough to know what makes one coach better than another.
And your arguments so for have proven me right.
Posted on 9/22/10 at 3:39 pm to lsuexpert57
quote:
The problem is that he is stubbornly trying to force the Read Option Offense despite having personnel better suited for a prostyle offense and nearly a decade's worth of evidence showing his offense's ineffectiveness.
You are a trip. First you post the above, and then you want to split hairs a few posts later and try to "educate" me on the fact that there is no such thing as the Read Option Offense If your football IQ was ten points lower you would be a tree.
Posted on 9/22/10 at 3:41 pm to lsuexpert57
quote:
Here's another faux paux by you, (that means stupid mistake...well not really, I added the stupid part myself)we have the PERSONNEL to run any kind of offense we want!
First, you mean "faux pas." Faux Paux is the plural form of "faux pas."
Second, the term "faux pas" doesn't mean "stupid mistake." It means a violation of a social norm. It's French for "false step."
If I were wrong (which I'm not), it still wouldn't be a "faux pas."
quote:
You want to run a power running game with a big tailback and bruising fb with a couple big TE's to help block? We got em. You want to run a spread with some small quick little backs and a QB that can run a bit? We got em. You wanna run a vertical passing game with some tall fast future NFL recievers and a strong armed QB? We got em. We have the talent to run whatever an OC can dream up..and in the past we have run some of everything.
First, I said "better suited to run a prostyle offense," not "only able to run a prostyle offense."
Second, if the above were true, wouldn't you have a problem with the fact that Crowton chose to run an offense that yields production in 110s every time its used, despite our apparent ability to run every system under the sun?
This post was edited on 9/22/10 at 4:01 pm
Posted on 9/22/10 at 3:43 pm to lsuexpert57
quote:
My argument isn't that some coaches aren't better than others.
MY argument is that YOU aren't smart enough to know what makes one coach better than another.
And your arguments so for have proven me right.
Have you ever been declared correct in anything that wasn't in a self-congratulatory fashion?
Posted on 9/22/10 at 3:44 pm to mike4lsu
Miles/Crowton are obviously trying to run an offense that they do not have the personnel to run.
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